The Hearing God Podcast
Each week, for over a decade, Anthony Moore and Dan Lamos have met for coffee. They process, pray, follow rabbit trails, and talk openly about what it really looks like to hear from God. Now you're invited to pull up a chair.
The Hearing God Podcast explores what it means to live a Spirit-led life in the everyday. The moments of clarity and the moments of confusion. The risk of stepping out and the grace that meets you when you do. Each episode blends prophetic insight with honest, practical conversation so you leave not just informed, but moved.
If you're hungry to know God more deeply, not just know about Him, this is for you.
The Hearing God Podcast
Putting one foot in front of the other
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Questions? Fun God stories? Let us know!
That nagging voice that says, “You should be farther along,” can sound spiritual while it quietly drains your joy and erodes your confidence in God’s love. Anthony and Dan start with a grounded reminder we both need on repeat: God’s voice and God’s message always come in a loving way. As we learn to hear God, our biggest growth edge is often not technique, but expectation, trusting that when He captures our attention in prayer or in the middle of an ordinary day, His tone is kindness.
We also talk about why “should” is rarely helpful and how it tends to spring from comparison, fear, and the false belief that we are the chief transformation agent in our own story. From there we shift into a theme the Lord has been pressing into Anthony’s life: enjoyment. Enjoying God and enjoying what God does is not a shallow detour, it is part of healing and part of building endurance for the long road of spiritual formation.
The conversation deepens into Christian resilience, shaped by John Eldridge’s Resilient and Tish Harrison Warren’s What Grows in Weary Lands. We name the grief many of us carry after years of cultural tension and change, and we explore what happens when we stop compartmentalizing pain and instead invite Jesus into the places that hurt. Along the way we reflect on Hebrews 12, the difference between weight and sin, and Romans 8:17 on sharing in Christ’s sufferings so we may also share in His glory. If this brings language to what you’re carrying, subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find these conversations.
Welcome Back And Settle In
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast. I'm Anthony Moore. And I'm Dan Lamus. For over a decade, Anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical, and the matters of the heart.
SPEAKER_02And we invite you into these weekly conversations. We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table.
SPEAKER_00So pull up a chair, settle in, and let's get started. Well, here we are. Here we are. Yes. Nice. Okay. I do kind of enjoy the randomness of the occasional person I come across and they will greet me with Here we are. Here we are. And a little twinkle in their eye, and I'm like, eh, okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, hey. So here we are. That's good. And uh had a had a few week little just a little break there for uh vacation over the summer. Yep. Um so we're back at it, back in the grind. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Yep. We had the mythological vacation. The mythological.
SPEAKER_02What's that? Oh, sorry, like but you mean like myth, myth in the purest sense of the word?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I just mean I'm uh in the tongue-in-cheek. Okay, okay, okay. I always find my imagined vacation is somewhat more glorious than the actual the actual ordinary, everyday v vacation. But I still love vacation. Well, I just I just I I enjoy the anticipation of it more sometimes than the actual experience. Yes.
SPEAKER_02I was I was referring to like the the myth part of it, like uh as in like the the real meaning of the word myth is basically just story with God, like a god. Uh and uh how like that gets like, but we have this common understanding of the word myth meaning that
Vacation Myths And Real Rest
SPEAKER_02actually connotates not true. Right, yeah. And the the original sort of like the Greek doesn't actually like it's basically just a story with a god, and yeah, it's not it doesn't necessarily have to be false. No, that's right.
SPEAKER_00So anyway, myths are very helpful. Myths are very helpful.
SPEAKER_02They keep us full often. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, it's probably yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh I think my mine, I think mine was uh just just to uh be your counterpoint there. My my vacation was actually on point with what I had hoped it to be and what I experienced. So there's nice. So they were actually like you know how they do that meme sometimes with like you know the ex expectation and then the reality is something different. Yours was pretty close. Mine was actually pretty close, which yeah, I am very happy about.
SPEAKER_03Oh, me too. That's really cool.
SPEAKER_00And it has felt good to have some just some unplugged time and have time to to sit with things that matter most. And no, it's been good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and in fairness, I am not at the stage of life where you know I have a random family member showing up with all of their family to disrupt my. I'm in that I'm in that stage of life where my teenagers are off. Okay, doing camp things, and and so yeah, so I have a I have a reasonable expectation for peace and quiet in my house.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, we are becoming in our household, Linda and I are at the age where we're becoming the vacation destination, which is kind of kind of fun. Yeah, it's fun. So where are you going for vacation? No, like we are the vacation and the destination, we're the destination.
SPEAKER_02So that's kind of a fun thing. In inherently, there is a little chaos that's introduced, yeah. Unless less people is always a little crazy, yeah. When you have kids running around, toddlers and such.
SPEAKER_00Amazing. Yeah. Well, I'm amazed at how they can expend so much energy one day, yeah, go to sleep, yeah, get back up, and they have just as much energy. Just as much energy. How do you even do that? It's a mystery, but it's it's good. God and I had some fun moments of just him smiling at me, going, Yeah, yeah, that's you know, that's the way I see you. Yep. You know, I wanted
Expecting God’s Voice To Be Loving
SPEAKER_00to tell you, um, that I I've I was thinking about our conversation today, and I'm glad I'm glad to say that that I feel like I'm feel like I'm I'm growing some deeper roots, uh, especially in this area of knowing that God's voice and his message, yeah, all they will his voice and his message will always come in a loving way. Yeah. Good. Because he loves me. Yeah. Because he loves us. Yeah. And uh that sounds like a simple idea, and yet uh I I feel like that is what he's doing with me right now, and I'm really, really grateful for it. Um I'm learning more, I'm appreciating more before God says a thing to me. Yeah, he loves me, and this is gonna come in a loving way. Yeah, if it doesn't feel loving to me, it's not that like that's something for my heart to grow in. It's for my heart to get rid of the ideas that I can't be confident in God's love for me. So I'm just really the I think that so the the expectation, I think there's a big word there I forgot to say. I'm growing in my expectation of that. Right, right. Like when I whether I'm intentionally coming to a time of prayer or God randomly captures my attention in a moment, yeah. I'm my my expectation that it's going to be a loving thing, yeah, is growing. Yeah. I'm really grateful for that. At this stage in my life, to still be growing in that feels really good.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think that like honestly, like that the journey, you know, and we've said this even from the very beginning of you know, just doing doing this podcast and having these conversations, uh, and very connected to our ministries and what we do. Uh, but it is the the convincing of the heart, uh that our hearts need to be convinced that that that God loves us. And and the process of that, right, is not like we may have um we may have these moments with the Lord where we're like, you know, have this encounter, whatever God speaks to us. And in that moment, we're fully convinced that he loves us. Yeah. But as we sort of move past those, we often find ourselves in these places and situations that where we become less so convinced. Right. But but the yeah, but the I guess the the but there is in these moments, sort of these uh oasis type moments throughout our lives, they're all part and parcel to the overall journey of this loving conversation that God is having with our heart to convince us that he loves us, right? Right, of of what is true, right? And so, and so it is this, you know, again, it feels a little bit, you know, as you know, as a human, uh, as the object of God's affection, it sometimes can feel a little uh uncertain, yeah. It can feel uh a little distant, it can feel, you know, a little less than those moments that we've had from time to time with the Lord.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you're completely nailing you're like you're really nailing the like the path or journey God's had me on, right? They're saying in the parts of you, Dan, where you don't think, where you're not consciously preparing for moments, yeah, in those places, you still question whether or not I love you. Right. And I've been surrendering those areas. Like God, I can't, those are areas of my life I can't figure out. All I can do is surrender that to you. Yeah. So any of that, any of those places that are they're so deep or they move too quick within me, yeah, I give those to you. And and I feel like he's really been bent helping me with exactly what you're talking about. That yeah, the anticipation of when God, when God brings something to me, I know he loves me. Yeah, like I'm not it's he's not I'm not having to be convinced as much repeatedly.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's this thing that happens in us,
Why “I Should” Hurts The Soul
SPEAKER_02right? Like there's uh there was a con there was I heard it recently in a sermon where you know it it's this idea that I should be farther along than I am right now, right? That but that thought is not rooted in love.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_02Right. So it's it's rooted in comparison, it's rooted in fear, is rooted like and by comparison, it's either I'm either comparing myself to the person next to me, or I'm comparing myself to the person that I think that I should be. Yeah. Which right, or the time, the time that it's gonna take for me to get there, right? So you're you're comparing so that so that right there is rooted in all kinds of dysfunction, right? But it's like not not the loving conversation that that Jesus is trying to have with us. Yeah. So it's like there's a but I think that that's a man, I've heard that, and I, you know, I've I've heard that plenty, and it when I hear it, and you know, admittedly, I've had those feelings, I'm sure we all have. But when I hear it from someone else, I'm just kind of like so captured with how destructive that just that thought is, that just because it's it's a potent feeling, and there's an angle by which you that seems almost noble, right? Like I'm I'm gonna be the one to whip myself into shape, and I may or may not be doing a good job at that, right? I seem to be failing at that, but yet the intention of my heart is I'm gonna be the one like to whip myself to to do the things, to, you know, you know, to be the one who's the motivator for where I believe I should be in my journey with the Lord. And but the problem with that is the at the very root of it, it's that you're you're the like you're judging where you think you should be without knowing the full picture. Yeah. And also you think that you're you're the chief transformation agent. Yeah. And there's probably more lies in there, but just those are the two that are coming off the surface. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Where it's I always assume God's gonna thank me for doing that. Yes. Like, wow, thank you for working on yourself and getting yourself all prepped.
SPEAKER_02That saved me so much trouble.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for yeah, and he's like, now could we just start over again if that's cool? Yeah, totally, Anthony. Like that, I think it's like it's like yeah, I always want to put a hazmat suit on when I start handling should. Yeah, like whenever I have a you know, I should be better, right? Or someone else says it to me, I'm like, wait a second, I want to put on my protective gloves. Yeah, because this is not good.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no, no. No, that's really good.
SPEAKER_00Should is rarely helpful.
SPEAKER_02But yeah, that that journey, like, because I think just that thought, that lie that we can slide off into believing is very connected to how loved we believe we are. Because if we believe, if our hearts like it would seem to me that if our hearts are fully convinced that that we are loved by God and we are fully convinced of that, yeah, then shoulds kind of go out the window.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right. Right. Like I should be better, I should be further along, I should be doing these kinds of things. Yep. Whatever, whatever that, whatever that comes to mind, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's easy to jump past Jesus, never like you you never get the sense from Jesus, yeah, I should do this. Like you, you don't get the impression from him that he was ever trying to sort that question out.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Right. Totally.
SPEAKER_00Uh of, you know, of am I loved by my father or not? Right. And yet what like we are in Christ, right? As we've talked about different times on on our our here on the podcast, you know, that is such a powerful thing to be in Christ. That means we don't need to give ourselves to answering any should questions, yeah, uh, that that he wouldn't be processing. Yeah. Like he operated with the expectation that he was loved by the father all the time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So it just that's a I mean, that's a awesome just sort of thought for what you're sort of what you've been sort of processing. Anything else that you've been sort of as were uh that that's the big one.
SPEAKER_00That's the big one. Honestly, and I'm excited to hear about you. Because I think that's that's cool to hear that in many ways the vacation time has really been like a a blue ribbon one almost like a quality one for you.
Learning To Enjoy God On Purpose
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think so there's a couple things that I mean it feels like, you know, so um I feel like the Lord's been talking to me throughout this year from time to time about enjoyment. You know, if you whatever podcast ago where we're talking about like a word for the year, uh, I do believe that the Lord uh has invited me into growing in my enjoyment of him. And and not just a and again, so that's huge, just enjoying God, yeah, but also the things that he does, like actually taking time to enjoy, like stop and smell the roses, as it were. So when God does something to allow myself to fully embrace that moment of celebration and enjoyment and not immediately sort of go on to the next thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02Like that's so so really there is a there is an invitation you know of the Lord's to for me to to step into enjoyment. And I and I I hear him in and I have heard him in these sort of recent weeks, you know, go, ah, see that thing? Yeah, it's okay to enjoy that. Right. Or or you're or remember, or he catches me enjoying something and go, see, this is good, right? Like it feels like he's saying those kinds of things to me. And so just to just to say that, like, I just I'm thankful and maybe I think probably for the first time out loud, acknowledging that like I feel like the journey, like we're we're further down the road on the journey of enjoying God. So that's cool. So that's really that's been something that's really cool. Um, the other thing that I was uh wanted to sort of talk about because I think it's um it's a little bit um I don't know, it's just seems to be this potent, maybe, and yet sort of understated thing, uh, and the Lord's been sort of just dealing with me about.
Resilience Lessons From Two Books
SPEAKER_02And it's really it has to do with resilience. Uh, and it comes from basically two two books that I have read in the last one. I one I read over vacation and another I read just before. And one one was uh the one I read before vacation was a book called Resilient, okay, and it was by John Eldridge, which just you know just it had a moment, I had many moments of like with the Lord, just kind of just it just punched right in the heart. Uh, gotcha. So just just it just met me like he just met me very powerfully through specifically the audiobook. Now, if you don't know if if you don't know John Eldridge and his audiobooks, oftentimes his audio because he narrates his audiobooks, he will add commentary to his audiobooks that isn't necessarily on the written page. So yeah, just but so he often does these things where it's like, okay, so you can pause the recording now, you know, right spend time with the Lord over this subject, like ask the Lord about this. Yeah, right. And so, and and or also like expounding on actually did. Yeah, well, yeah, so and he also he also expounds on things that you know, why he wrote what he wrote, right? Or making connections. So, so it's actually a little bit of a bonus if you actually go through the audiobook. And I am very much an audio audiobook.
SPEAKER_00Because really he he is ex he's extraordinary in the art of uh mentoring and fathering, and he's very, very secure in that role. Yeah, just a shout out to his, especially his recent books, but probably it's been there for a long time. But recent his more recent books, especially, there's a yeah, I strong sense of this guy loves to pour into others, yeah. And he he's really anointed to do it.
SPEAKER_02And he yeah, he really has a gentle sort of father, not and gentle not by weak, because you know, the it is firm, but it is gentle, yeah. Uh, and fatherly way about him when he when he's just communicating. So that part, so that part was, you know, that resilient book. And then there was another book I read over the over the vacation. It was called What Grows in Weary Lands. Right. I've just started that with uh it's actually written by a woman named Tish Warren. Right. And she's uh Anglican minister, uh, and she's uh she's an author and she writes for some articles and some newspaper.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02But I found that one, I actually found that one sort of infuriatingly true. Okay. Because I found her putting her finger on things that I wasn't necessarily ready to admit yet about my own sort of frailty or my own tendencies or my own weaknesses. Right. And I and I remember sending a text to uh I sent a text to Pastor Brent and I said, Hey, I just I'm uh through a few uh I'm I'm through a few the first few chapters of that and something like man, that's in it's infuriatingly true what she's writing on. Yeah, and it really comes down to this this point of uh you know the idea of Christian resilience, meaning uh how we walk through, you know, the chaos and the tension and the just of the world around us, especially in these days. Right. Right. And also in as a Christian and as a Christian leader, uh the she puts her finger on these places in our heart where it's just like, you know, it just feels like you know, you've said this at times where it feels like the Lord is going, like, here, this is gonna hurt. And almost like the Lord's just holding you down, holding you down, saying, sit still, this is gonna hurt, but afterwards you're gonna, you're gonna, you know, it's gonna be good. Yeah. Right? Like it felt like sort of like this trip to the doctor almost in just in these areas of just and really like, you know, again, we're we've all lived through, you know, the last six years and you know, the the tension of what the world is now. Because, you know, and we've said this before, the world has not gone back to this place where we were uh in 2018, 2019. That's right. It's not gone back to that place, even if sort of the madness of the of COVID and the the you know all all of that tension and the racial tension have sort of died down a little bit.
SPEAKER_00It's not like we've really gotten our bearings. No, never had them, right? It's not like we've actually settled back into where we're gonna go. Exactly.
Grieving What The World Lost
SPEAKER_02And what what both books have identified is is this place of allowing yourself to grieve what was lost. Ah. And what I found that like I found that so powerful because you know, as and again, whatever, this is I'm sure this isn't just me, but oftentimes we're we want to get, and I just said it, you know, in the last thing I was talking about, oftentimes we just want to get to the next thing, right? Right. Yeah, and in doing so, we uh probably prolong whatever season that was of endurance or perseverance or darkness or you know, or tension. Uh so it's really this thing of like process because we don't process it, we don't allow ourselves to grieve the things that were lost. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I found that to be just like again, there is a little thread there of you know, the things that the Lord has been talking to me about over the last number of years. But I have found that I found that space early on in sort of the in my vacation to actually sit. With the Lord and grieve how things have changed. Wow. And even for and even for the worse. Let me just uh putting aside what God's doing, and I'm really thinking about the way the world is right now. Right. That it isn't, yeah, like it hasn't got we haven't gotten back and it isn't getting better. Right.
SPEAKER_00You're not looking for answers, you're just just saying saying this is really hurts a lot. I'm sad. Right. Um feeling this way.
SPEAKER_02I'm sad. I'm exhausted. My heart is tired. Uh, I want to withdraw, I want to just go hide. Uh, I want to just I want I don't I don't want to engage with people anymore because it hurts too much. Right. Wow. So man, yeah. So I just said a lot right there. But so but but uh what I found in and honestly like they've actually had to put you under in order to have this. He had to pin me down and make me mad. Um, but one of the things, one of the things that I found was because there's a there's a you know, that was true, and maybe to some degree still is true, because I feel like there's a certain measure of healing in that. But what I did have to confront was I had to confront the fact of like, what happen what happens if this doesn't get any better? Like what like what does this mean? What does this mean for me, my calling, my my job, my purpose? And there's a there's a measure of fear there of like, okay, so I've been ignoring this at some level for quite some time. Right. And also, like, what happens if that just doesn't go away? Like, how am I how am I supposed to continue if this just this exhaustion, heart level exhaustion, uh what what am I supposed to do if that just doesn't go away? Right. And again, like you know, as as dudes often do, we tend to compart compartmentalize things. And so it's I'm able to at some level just sort of like put it in a box over there and just like and I have been, I guess. Yeah, but the grief, the grieving process, especially with the Lord, has allowed number one, he's it's allowed that to come out, yeah. Okay, yeah, and that's been important, but more importantly, that's allowed him to come in. Yeah, right? That's right. And so so that's again, like that's yeah, you know, freedom prayer 101, allow Jesus into those places that hurt the most.
SPEAKER_00What an amazing, what an amazing uh dynamic to when we to what we mean by knowing and doing life with Jesus means we experience what he's like in those places. Like if I you know uh like like getting that process of grieving out on the table, so I'm actually engaging with it, and then Jesus is there with me, yeah, I'm experiencing what he's like in that process. And that that is I mean, if you just keep it, if if we just keep it all in the safe little compartments, we never get to experience what Jesus is like in that place.
SPEAKER_02And and it's true because I think there's a lot of like, and this is a very human thing to do.
Letting Jesus Into Locked Wounds
SPEAKER_02It's like because it's not just what I was sort of like going through in these last little this last little while, but it really is a a thing of like we're we tend to lock wounds away and protect them, right? Right, and not only protect them from other people, but we also can also protect them from Jesus. Right, yeah, right. That's right. So we lock them away and they remain there, yeah, and we try to function, and to some measure we're able to do that, right? But then God in his goodness and his faithfulness comes, you know, brings us around at times to confront us with these wounds. Right. Like when you're ready, I'm ready, I'm I'm willing to enter into that place that hurts. Yeah. And so, but the but the really the the fear comes in us. There is there is a root of fear that that is connected to those wounded places. Yeah. Like what can I can I trust? Right. Can I trust a brother? Can I trust God? Can I trust people with this wounded place? Yeah. And so I found that even just over just over the grieving of the way the world is, I found myself uh really confronted with allowing allowing the Lord. It was just this this thing where it's just like this wrestle, and I wasn't necessarily super happy about it. I remember just and and when I'm my my oftentimes my secret place is a long drive. So so I found myself in a car praying and even listening to this book.
SPEAKER_00You know, I mean, full full disclosure, there were times over our vacation that I was wondering, huh? I wonder if I wonder if Anthony's been doing any road trips. Honestly, I just I thought, huh. I bet you he has been. So I had some good. I'm glad I I'm glad I uh I'm glad I know you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But the but really wrestling and the compartmentalization is a like it really is a thing that's rooted in fear. And so when we when we say no to the fear, and even in the middle of a wrestle, I've found that like that God will take that, like God, I don't I don't know if I trust you, yet I'm willing to open my heart to you. Right. Yes. So it's the choice, yeah, even in the midst of like um, even in the midst of not being certain. Because and this isn't like, and again, this is this is about what your heart believes. It isn't about knowing the right answer, because you and I, and every Christian who's been a Christian for a long time, would know the right answer. Of course, we can trust Jesus with everything, right? But it comes down to what we what we in our heart believe. Right, right. Like this point comes the question, so why don't I exactly so and then and there their God in his goodness comes back around, like he keeps coming back. And so he leads us to this place, and he led me to this place where I was willing to just open my heart and say, God, these are the things like even at times, just to say, like, the I this season has been so costly to my heart. Has so costly and so costly to uh to things, right? Just even, you know, the things that I have lost, the things that the way, you know, again, the the seemingly increasing heaviness of tension, right, around around me in the world, around me, economically, geopolitically, you know, uh, you know, just small issues, big issues, whatever, like interpersonal issues, all of those kinds of things. It just seems like tension. And it's like it really can becomes exhausting to try and and uh bear up under that, right? Right. So so anyway, and so just to say that you know, this isn't a commentary, I mean you could go a little further with that, but really this came to this place of just opening my heart to the Lord, confessing what was going on, and allowing him and just and sitting there for a minute, right? Right, not trying to move off and move on too quickly, yeah, but allowing my heart to grieve. Yeah, yeah. And when I did that, God came and he met me. Yep. And there, you know, again, I'm I feel so much better. Right. My heart, my heart feels so much better. And again, yeah, I'm not sure if we're all well, you know, Jesus because um let me let me just connect this to this one more thought and then I'll uh I'll uh I'll let you talk. But just really this it comes down to this place of where and I'm I know that you would know this, and many, many pastors and leaders have experienced these moments of of like where it feels like the world is like the weight of the world is on your shoulders and your heart is so heavy. And she describes Tish in her her book, The What Grows in Weary Lands. We she where she describes this scene where she drives to this parking lot, she just kind of like explodes, implodes, like her world, she crashes out basically. And we often hear of leaders, and we've heard of plenty, too many over the last number of years, who have crashed out in a big way, where they've allowed whatever that pressure of leadership to cause them to act out in a certain way that has led to their you know disqualification from leadership. What her angle was is that is that we don't hear about and you know, and Anthony, you know, poured his out his heart out to the Lord, right, and then he he turned his car around and went home. Right. Yeah, you know, went in his front door and went in his front door and screened his and his and his family, went in his favorite chair and or and he sat down and and had supper. Right. And he went to bed.
SPEAKER_00He may not have even enjoyed supper that much. Like it wasn't maybe what even the greatest.
SPEAKER_02But it but he went to and he went to bed and he got up the next morning and he went back at it. Right. And so like that's the part about like, and again, there's the connection to resilience. Yes. And the invitation, I you know, there was one more thing I'll throw in there is that like a number of years ago, the Lord really dropped Hebrews 12 on my heart about laying, like, there's actually, you know, it's like Hebrews 12, I think it's verse one, where it says, you know, since we are surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and sin. So there's there's weight that isn't sin. Okay. So there's let us lay aside every weight and sin, which clings so closely. And this is the part is to let us run with endurance the race that is set before us. Right. So why is why is it important? What am I trying to get at? Is that the writer said run with endurance. Right. So he he wouldn't have said run with endurance if there weren't going to be things that we have to endure.
SPEAKER_00Right. You could just say run the race. Right.
SPEAKER_02So that's why resilience matters. Yeah. That's that we keep it it is that thing of like, okay, so we can't do any of this. We can't lay aside sin without the grace of God. We can't lay aside uh, we can't lay aside weights without the grace of God. Yes. And we can't run without with endurance, endurance, without the grace of God. Right. So it's really this connection of like, okay, so we need like we need to be like dealing with like and not dealing with or confronting and allowing the Lord to deal with our sin, our weight, yeah, and endurance. Yeah. The things that we carry, right? And so I think that's the that's the you know, to sort of like maybe semi-wrap it up the line of conversation with a with a bow, it really comes down to that as believers and as pe as people who are not of this world, yes, and as we walk through this world, yeah, there because we are in this world.
SPEAKER_00Because there are in this world. We're not of it, right? We're in it, but we're not of it. Right. It's on purpose, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Right. And so there are going to be weights, yeah, there are going to be sins, and there are going to be moments where we have to endure. Yeah. And so really, like, this is the this is the this is the thing that the Lord, you know, it was it's in line with this. That the Lord was like, okay, so let me have the weight of the way the world is right now.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02Let me deal with that wound that you're carrying in your heart. Let me let me have it. Right. Right. And it was anyway, so yeah, just to say that like I feel like I know, I just feel like that's gonna be helpful for a ton of people. Yeah. Because we're hesitant to just say that stuff out loud.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And are you finding are you are you finding some new endurance? Like, do you sense that? Yeah, I feel like the difference.
SPEAKER_02I mean, again, like I feel like that's that's at least this is very connected to why that season of rest for me was so good. Because I felt like I like honestly, like I felt like there was this moment with the Lord where we had we had a little bit of breakthrough. Yeah, I love it. And you know, and it was really cool. Yeah, so I think that that was the thing, stuff that allowed me to sort of just let that stuff go. Yeah, and there's healing and there's rest that comes from from being on the other side,
Suffering Well With Endurance
SPEAKER_02man.
SPEAKER_00You know, so well, there's a dynamic to Jesus, you know, historically, currently, you know, there's a dynamic to him that frankly it scares us a bit uh at times, and that is Jesus knows how to suffer well. Yeah, he always did, yeah, and he always will. Yeah, this is part of what who he is is that he suffers well. The part that's frightening for us is when we wake up to the fact that we are called in Christ to also suffer well, yeah. Like he doesn't just do all of that for us without our partnership.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_00He actually invites us into that partnership of suffering well. Like one of the marks of a Christian would be that we do suffer well, yeah, and we do run our way race with endurance, even in the midst of and after suffering. Like there's suffering doesn't take us out of the game. It actually, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I was I was gonna say, like, even let's just take a minute here and talk about suffering, right? And how sometimes, you know, and again, for a long period of my life, my view on the suffering of Jesus was only connected to the passion, right? When he was really suffering, when he was whipped and when we were when he was beaten. And not, and again, that I'm not discounting that, yeah, right. It's very much that. And there are very much believers even now who are sharing with that part of the suffering of Jesus. But there is also part of the suffering, and I look at the suffering of Jesus is to say, what did Jesus experience that wasn't heavenly? Right, right, that wasn't as in heaven, right? Right. So there's betrayal, there's uh, you know, there's um uh there's um uh frustration that he felt at all of the things that weren't uh weren't of God that were happening in and around him. It was injustice, uh persecution by leaders who should have known better. I was gonna say, yes, by God people, by people who would claim that we're we're God's favorites were but there was and again, like I think at least for my part, and again, this is you know just mostly my my opinion, but I do think you can make a really great case that the suffering that Jesus endured was was everything that he experienced that wasn't from God. Yes, right, that not just that passion weep, not just the passion weep. Absolutely. So we and so, like again, ridicule, uh, you know, all the the testing and the whatever, like there was the the temptation, this the suffering, the disappointment, yeah, absolutely, absolutely grief, grieving, uh, you know, the loss of friends, like John the Baptist, Lazarus, like yeah, like the grieving of all the things. So when we when we pray a prayer like Paul does, like I want to know Christ, and you know, the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his suffering, right? It's really this place of like every time, and and there is a you know, every time that we experience some of these moments, we enter into and we participate and we share with what Jesus went through. And and if we have that mind and that heart, it creates like if we're if we know that we're doing it with, we're sharing in this, like sharing with in that suffering with Christ. God can meet us there. Yeah, that's right. Right, because we're sharing with him in those places. God can meet us there. And so I just let me just so good.
SPEAKER_00Like it's just really good. How are we doing for time?
SPEAKER_02I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I I I really lost I lost complete track, honestly.
SPEAKER_02Complete track. We got we got maybe 10 minutes or so.
SPEAKER_00Okay, because I I what you've been sharing really it was on my heart to share this earlier,
Romans 8 And Sharing Glory
SPEAKER_00yeah. And so it really makes to me, it really makes a lot of sense with what uh with what you've been sharing, but it's along this, it's out of Romans 8, verse 17. Um, because part of what I feel like God's been doing with me as well is well, I'll just read this to you. I just have it here in my journaling. Uh, it's not so much about the amount of suffering I may experience or the intensity of the suffering, yeah. It is how I move through it. Yes. It is about how deeply I embrace God's love for me in the process of moving through the pain or difficulty. So it sounds somewhat similar to what God was doing in you as well. Yeah. But this particular verse grabbed me and it's and it's familiar. So I've got it in three different translations. So I just think it's gonna be familiar to most everybody listening. It's it's just this. Now, if we are children of God, then we are heirs, heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00If indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. Okay, so that's the new international version. So you have this sharing in Jesus' sufferings and also sharing in his glory. Um, and I'm thinking of sharing in his glory isn't just what happens after I die and leave this earthly experience. His glory that actually comes and overlaps this whole life that I'm living. Uh, that Jesus glorified God in the way he did the day-to-day. Agreed. So, so the new new living translation gets a little closer to what was happening in me. And so since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ, we are heirs of God's glory. So thinking about when I say I'm saved and I'm rescued, that means I'm with Christ. Yep. I'm in Christ. I'm an heir of God's glory, but if we share his glory, we must also share his suffering. And then the last one I want to read to you is New American Standard Bible says, and if children heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with him, so that we may also be glorified with him. So what's been happening in me in a similar way is it's not so much that I need to aspire to suffer as intensely as Christ suffered. Right. It's actually almost the opposite flow. It's recognizing that I I and every person I know suffers at different levels of or intensities throughout your lifetime. Agreed. And what we're talking about is inviting Jesus into those places where I suffer. Yes, and I'm gonna suffer with him, I'm gonna do it his way. Yes. I'm my experiences are my experiences. Yes. But instead of leaving them packed up in that airtight compartment that you mentioned, yeah, I'm actually going and being willing to unpack that along with Jesus being there and and actually letting him show me how does one do this? How does one suffer? Yeah, that's really good.
SPEAKER_02So it's not so because I think we can get a little bit like again back to the comparison piece, right? of like seeing so bad or or you know or like oh I could never you know endure what that person has endured yeah right yada yada yada like the like there's a real I think Jesus uh addresses that in I think it's John 21 where it's like we're that disc that discourse on the beach um where you know Jesus had just finished telling Peter that someone was going to lead him where he didn't want to go talking about his death what about that guy and then Peter goes what about John and you know and then Pete and then Jesus goes what's it to you what's it to you right yeah and so yeah really uh it really is it's like it pulls us out of comparison and yet you've got your own suffering you've got your own suffering and and again and and we we also say that like if your suffering from your perspective is but a little then it is suffering nonetheless right and an opportunity for God to come in and do his work. Right. Right if your suffering is great if to the point of you know imprisonment and laying down your life for the sake of the gospel right then it is a light momentary affliction right in the light of eternity and also an opportunity for God to come in and do his work. Right. Right and in and through in and through you. And so just really it really just like you know God pull us out of comparison and let us you know run through this life walk through this life with endurance and resilience allow and and ultimately rooted in the grace of God. Yes like empowered by the grace of God like again just as I was saying earlier about like we can't you know and maybe this is a maybe this is a good place to land the plane but really just this the reality of like we can't lay aside our weight the weight that we're carrying without the grace of God we can't lay aside the sin without the grace of God and we can't run with endurance without the grace of God. So yeah maybe I don't know that feels like maybe I'll just maybe I'll do the praying this yeah that's so good.
Prayer For Grace And Freedom
SPEAKER_02Mental note that the grace of God yeah absolutely ma'am yeah so father we just come before you God we just first we want to welcome your presence God we thank you for your love towards us we thank you that we are fully loved and we thank you for the journey that all of us are on of allowing our hearts to be convinced fully that you love us. And so God I agree with that that word according to your word I pray Lord that we would grow in the knowledge of your love and to know how loved we are and so God we just I just pray right now God I pray for those who are in a season of endurance God where endurance is required I say God give grace for endurance for those who are in seasons where they're carrying weights God I pray that there would be grace given for them to open up their heart to you and allow them to fully cast their cares upon you because you care. And for those who are wrestling in a season where they're caught up in various sin, Lord I pray that your grace like grace abound all the more in Jesus name and we just agree together for freedom for their lives and for their hearts Lord in Jesus' name so Lord God I thank you for being in this conversation I thank you for your presence Lord I pray that you would just go with us in Jesus' name. Amen.
SPEAKER_00Amen well that's a wrap on this episode it's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest as we all learn to hear God better.
SPEAKER_02If your time with us has been encouraging and you think this conversation will be helpful to others we would love it if you could share this podcast with the people around you. Until next time
