Authority That Changes A Room

Some conversations carry more than information, they carry weight. We have both had moments where someone speaks and our hearts recognize something deeper is happening, not emotional hype, but a clear spiritual resonance. That is the kind of “unexplainable but unmistakable” authority people noticed on Jesus, and it is the hunger driving this conversation on the Hearing God Podcast.

We wrestle with what made Jesus teaching feel so different, and why crowds were drawn to Him even before miracles broke out. Then we get practical: spiritual authority is not something we manufacture or chase as an experience. We believe it grows out of union with God, intimacy with Jesus, abiding in the Spirit, and learning to hear God clearly. We also talk about Acts 4 and the startling credibility of “ordinary and unschooled” believers whose main credential is simply that they have been with Jesus.

From there, we turn toward the refining work that often comes with deeper intimacy. Dan shares a fresh prophetic picture from a prayer gathering: a packed bookshelf and a “book of insecurities” with no place to belong. As he prays through it, God names what is underneath it, bearing false witness, and it opens a path for repentance, renouncing lies, releasing self-protection, and receiving God’s truth and peace. We close by coaching simple freedom prayer questions you can ask the Holy Spirit and by praying for you to let go of what has felt like comfort but has been stealing life.

If this helps you grow in hearing God, spiritual authority, repentance, and identity in Christ, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review. What is one “book” you sense God asking you to release?

Transcript

Welcome To Hearing God

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast. I'm Anthony Moore. And I'm Dan Lamus. For over a decade, Anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical, and the matters of the heart.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

And we invite you into these weekly conversations. We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table. So pull up a chair, settle in, and let's get started.

Why Jesus Taught With Authority

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Well, here we are. Here we are. Yes. Okay. So how's it going, Dan?

SPEAKER_02 0:36

I have really been enjoying kind of returning to something that has intrigued me before. But really over the past week or two has been really with me. And it's it's uh this dynamic of Jesus, the way people perceive Jesus when he would come into situations, when he would speak to a situation, uh, whether it was in the synagogue or out in the market or wherever it was, and he would teach. Yeah. And scripture says in Mark, it says the people were amazed at Jesus teaching because he thought he taught with authority, right? Unlike the teachers of the law. Yeah. And I feel like I've always been intrigued with what was that? Like, what was it that people were were amazed by because it's so clear in the gospels, right? There was just a dynamic when Jesus was teaching, ministering, yeah, that stuff just happened and things surrendered and the atmosphere was different.

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yeah. And so I've just been I've it's actually I'm maybe it would maybe it was it was a little bit more than more than just commanding the wind and the waves. It was actually from the place of teaching the scripture, people were aware that something else was going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Like we've heard these things before, but yeah, well, wait a second, this is coming from a different place. Right. And I've so I've and part of what I'm running into, Anthony, is I've I've just been as prone as everybody else to say, yeah, but that was Jesus. Right. Yeah. And I've actually found myself turning it into a prayer and saying, Jesus, I want, I want to move in that authority. Right. I want that more in my life. I want to understand what was the authority that you are coming with, you know. And so that's where I've been challenged but excited. It's kind of it's motivational to me to think along those, pray along those lines. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

And just and then just see what uh what is possible. Because I think we talk a lot about um, you know, we've talked about uh, you know, obedience and the power of, you know, the power of a prophetic word, and it comes from operating out of obedience and those like uh we're all meant for more than what sort of this world can offer, right? Right. And and we're all uh, you know, so sometimes I I think we're aware of it when we're in the moment, you know, and and I think like some of those people who heard Jesus, where we might be sitting in a conversation or sitting in a room or whatever we're doing, right? And someone comes and says something, and we're aware, uh, and I think I've used these terms before, but we're we're aware of someone saying more than what's coming out of their mouth. Yes, that's right. Right. Yeah. So we're like, you're like, uh, because it doesn't, it probably hits your heart as much as it hits your mind. Or can I say maybe even less so your heart, but maybe uh there's a spiritual resonance there. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I ru I remember we had a conversation, we had a we had a um, you and I had a call last week with a with a beautiful couple from uh another spot in Canada. And and I, as we were talking, my heart started burning. Yeah, because they were, and that wasn't and it wasn't necessarily emotional, but there's a way that I experience when I come into contact with people and their sort of their love, their passion, their connection, right, their relationship with Jesus. Right. Uh, and again, that's not the it's not um, it doesn't happen all the time, but in certain situations where we are talking about certain things, I have this sometimes this awareness that oh, wait a second, my heart is burning. Right. There's something right there's something unique that the Holy Spirit is drawing my attention to about these this person or these people. And so we're aware of we're aware of that they're talking, but there's more happening, they're they're saying more than what's coming out of their mouth. Yeah, yeah. And I think, I think a little bit, like maybe just I don't know, we can go this way, but just I think um, in my mind, from an experiential uh perspective, like this is just sort of my experience, but I have been in these situations where uh, you know, like I could say maybe that maybe, right? Maybe even likely that the people in that day heard Jesus talk, right? It's a little bit like the road to Emmaus, like where Jesus unpacked the scriptures. They didn't know it was Jesus, yet their hearts were burning. Right. Right. There was a there was something happening. Something on him. Something Jesus had you know purposefully disguised his his appearance, um, but yet as he was communicating with them and sort of uh sharing the scripture, uh, you know, about about himself and the whole plan of uh you know, the plan of salvation and what uh redemption, the new creation, those kinds of things that there they were aware that their hearts were burning the whole time. Right. And I sort of see, I sort of lump maybe I don't know if this is correctly or incorrectly, but I sort of lumped these those experiences. It's uh a little bit like the I think it's Acts two or uh Acts two or three, but how it's was it was documented that they had they could tell that these people had been with Jesus. Yeah, and so there's yeah, they're something note that these are. So there's something, there's something mysterious, something mystical, yeah, something invisible that's going on that sort of people can perceive what's happening without necessarily identifying that from a like, well, uh, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like there's something else going on.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Yeah, yeah. And we want people to be in awe of the kingdom of God. Yeah. We want people to be in awe of the kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven. We don't care really that they would be in awe of us, right? You know, like maybe we're not perfect in that, but for the most part, by his grace, we're not yeah, it doesn't matter so much that they're in awe of us. I want that to be true a hundred percent of the time, but sometimes we're you know, we we're not perfect in it. But we do want them to be in awe of his kingdom on earth as it is in heaven. And to me, it's that thing you said earlier when we were just kind of prepping a little bit. You said it's it's unexplainable, yeah, but it's unmistakable. Yes, like there's something going on in this conversation, yeah, in this place, in this situation whatever it is that man, it I can't explain what's going on right now, but it's awe-inspiring and it feels like things are gonna shift because of the way this is happening. You know, I'm amazed different times. Um I'm amazed, I'm intrigued with times when it would say early in the morning, Jesus went out by the lake and a large cow crowd gathered to him. Right. It's like just by him going to this place and being, yeah, people would flock there because they wanted to experience, yeah, not just experience what he had to say, but what would happen when he talked, you know? Yeah. And somehow I feel like the church, which is built of people, somehow I feel like God wants to fill us with that same presence, anointing, so that when we're in places, we're not so obsessed with how am I exactly am I gonna say this thing? How exactly am I gonna approach this person? But we can go with the confidence hey, the presence of God, the presence of his kingdom is awe-inspiring. And however this goes, right? God's gonna be noticed here. Like there's gonna be something noticeable that follows me around, that you know, shows up when I show up. Yeah, you know, that's that's the vision for me of oh man, like I would love for the church to be known for that. Yes, not so much what these people say, it's just man, when I something around them, there's something there, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:01

And I think, yeah, for sure. Like I think uh, you know, as as a a believer who cares, uh, which is a little bit of a a double statement because I don't think you can be a believer and not care. But like as a believer, you want and and who is hungry for more of God in their life, I think, you know, again, there is some there's something like we would like that to be said about us. Like I would like that to be said about me. Right. Like I would and and again, not only not and not only just me, I would, I would want that. I agree. Like I would want that for I would want that for the people around me, like this house. I would like it for, you know, uh, oh, you're one of those King's Church people or whatever. Like I just say I think because there's something that actually because we're, you know, um we would like to have that that mark that thing that that is noticeable to people, right? That is, you know, in what what what was the what did you say?

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Unmistakable but unmistakable uh uh unexplainable.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Yeah. And so I think I just think that we would like we would like those kinds of things to happen in our lives, right? And the more the more I think, you know, again, in times where that's happened, you know, to me, I've been like, oh, that's I'm glad. I try not to make more of it than it is, because I guess the first thing that comes out of my mouth is like, thank you, Lord, that like that this happened, right? Right. Because it, I mean, again, like I would just like that to happen more and more out of my life. I would like my, you know, the the testimony of my life, the story of my life to to be um, you know, the report of like, hey, you know, this thing happened. Like, oh, when you know, this when when you got around, you know, when I got around you and you shared this thing, like these kinds of things happened, like uh unexplainable things happened. Like, yeah, my heart was burning, or I could tell you were speaking with authority and there was something going on there. Yeah. And I guess well,

Union With God Builds Authority

SPEAKER_00 11:13

yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

So I thinking back to our last episode, you were talking about uh about union with God, you know, about uh just the the beautiful and and mysterious pursuit of experiencing union with God. This thing we know is that is true in Christ Jesus. Our lives are hidden with Christ in God. Yeah, but God, I want to experience and I want my heart to believe it. I want to I want to be in that union with you. Thank you. It's attainable by grace, and so I'm going for it, God. I'm I'm want it, I'm pursuing it. Right. Um I believe that the authority we're talking about that Jesus modeled comes from these two main things. It comes from union with God, intimacy with God, abiding with God, and and hearing God. Yes. I think when we talk about healthy prophetic community, you know, we're talking about people who those both of those things are intact. Like they pers they they live in obviously by grace, none of us perfect in it, but they live in union with God, they abide in him and they listen for him. And and their authority comes from what being with God, which let's face it, it's beautiful, but it's doesn't always feel safe and comfy. Sometimes drawing into union with God is threatening to our flesh and to our things that maybe we're you know, places where we're withholding from God. We've got to He's gotta lead us through repentance sometimes in when we're intimate with Him. And then we're actually walking out of that time and and and willing to willing to hear what He has to say and speak it if He asks us to. But we're we're showing up in situations ready, ready to share what we're hearing. There's something uncanny about sharing a truth that you've actually heard from God. There's and people pick up on it when you know you when you know you're sharing something you've heard from God and it hits the mark with them, yeah, they're immediately taken to a place where they're not just listening to a human being speak. Yes. Like they're getting hit.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

And that's the that's the uh that's the unmistakable and unexplainable. Right. Right? Like there is because we can't the living word of God's happens right in front of us. We can actually, because our hearts know it, our hearts and our spirits know it. Right. And I'm and I guess I think when I say my heart, I'm not necessarily talking about an emotional response. Right. But there's just something else that's happening. Like I there's something in the core of who I am that is just aware that something is happening here, and I'm I can't explain it. Right. Other than other than we could, I guess we can sort of like we can loosely say, you know, we could talk, we say that that you know that God is God's moving through, you know, this person who is sharing that.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

So I I think it's something that the that the people of God can enjoy. Yes, absolutely. God puts it out right as an adventure.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

Well, I would say also like uh and again, maybe to sort of color in, you know, what I've already said, I actually don't think, you know, I don't think I need to chase that. Right. Right. Like I don't again, like I would like it to be and again, I don't I don't disagree with what I've said. I I would like it to be said of my life that these kinds of things happened, but I I think the mistake is is is chasing after those kinds of experiences. Right. And and even because I think, you know, even as we we talked about um you know a couple weeks ago, the fear of the Lord being a byproduct or a fruit of a unified heart. Right. I think these, you know, and and Dan or speaking as, you know, they could, you know, could tell that Dan was speaking as one with authority or saying that of me. It was when Anthony was saying that thing, their hearts burned, right? Those kinds of things. Yeah, yeah. That's a byproduct of union with God. Right. Right. That is a a fruit of that is a fruit of the work, the transformational work of the Holy Spirit. Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yeah, and I can I just want to. Yeah, go for it. Because I think that scripture in Acts, you're talking about the the kind of the court of law or the or the scribes or the Pharisees that were kind of trying these guys, they were actually noticing they were ordinary and unschooled. Yes. And they took note that they had been with Jesus. It's like uh, and I I wanted to apply the ordinary thing to not striving.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Like as you said it, there's something in there that's like just let me let me let me read that. It's actually Acts 4, uh, chapter chapter 4, verse 13. It says, So now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished, and they recognized that they had been with Jesus. Yes. Because, and this is obviously on the other side of the healing of the you know, the crippled, the crippled man, yeah, you know, silver and gold have I not, but such that I have I give to you in the name of Jesus, get up and walk. So, anyway, just just to just to give everybody the context of that, Acts chapter 4, verse 13.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

It seems to me there's a beautiful like way of being, like a beautiful invitation to a way of life, yeah of ordinary, like this is it's not expert territory, it's ordinary, it's being you, it's trusting who God's designed you to be, yeah, leaning heavily on being with like the the fact that you are with Jesus, have been with Jesus, continue to be with Jesus. Yeah that's your credential. Like that's yes, absolutely that's what actually things about God's.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Of course, and I think that's yeah, that's the thing worth chasing after, right? Like, yeah, like and again, like and it's not to and of course it's not to obviously it's not to devalue the education part of it, right? Because we look at we look at Paul. Paul was educated more than anyone. Perhaps, you know, he was a Pharisee of Pharisees, right? He was a smart guy and apparently a quite a pro prolific writer. Yeah, but like, but like from an intellectual perspective, from an education perspective, he he had that, but he was missing lean on that. But he but but he but he had he was missing he had been with Jesus, right? Right. So until until obviously the road to Damascus. So the yeah, the the part the part of like that you and I and really anybody listening can really chase after. I mean, you can again not to discount or discredit the the education part, because obviously that's important. Like we should have well-rounded knowledge, but the part that the schooling can't give you is the being with being with Jesus part. Yes, that's right. And you have to be with Jesus in order for people to tell you that they can tell that you've been with Jesus, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:37

So well that that definitely that definitely is the dance, I believe. Yeah. For people who follow Jesus for more than just a week, you know? Yeah people who are seeing, hey, I am for in this life and in the age to come, I am forever with Jesus. I found my place of being. It's with Jesus. It it will always be the dance, at least in this earth, at least in the life as we know it. Yeah. In this age. It's always gonna be a dance of um, you know, is God working because of the awesomeness of who we are? Right. Or is God working in spite of the awesomeness of which we think we are? Like it's just it's always this humility, it's probably it's always a mixed bag, right? Like we like to say, like it's it's always um, you know, for a guy like Paul, you know, Paul and Peter were contemporaries, they were peers, they knew each other, they served together in the early day, early uh years of decades of the church. They each had their own way, and some of it was according to the design God put on them, the household they grew up in, the level of education, the career choice. God redeemed all of it. Yeah, and whether he needs to take a person who's very qualified and use them in ways that don't seem very highly cultured or highly respected, or if he wants to take somebody who is used to being unnoticed and doesn't have anything impressive to bring to the table, and he puts them in an impressive seat in a community and says, How did they get there? Yeah, they didn't have any way to get there. Yeah, how did they end up in that position? Right. Well, God opened that door for them. Like it's always you can't say it's one or the other for everybody. It's God knows that you and he knows the journey. I like to I like the word redeem because it's like we don't have to say, well, I don't have to assume the way I've lived my life is completely unusable to God. I think we need to come with an open sort of, hey, anything could happen.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

Yep, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

You know, and I love that about Paul and Peter. Yeah, Paul definitely was like, Yeah, I know who I am and I've got lots of qualifications, but hey, like that really doesn't mean anything to me. Yeah, agreed. If I have to abandon like my union with God, I like like what really matters to me is that I'm right.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Because he would right, it's like all I have gained and now count as lost. Like it's all rubbish for the sake for the uh for the you know, the sake of this, I don't know, I'm butchering that, but just the for the sake of knowing Christ. Right, right. Like I want to know him, yeah, the the power of his resurrection, the fellowship of his sufferings. I want to know like Paul was all about the knowledge of God, right? And so, and again, like I think that's that's just the like I think just to circle back a little bit, is like that is the direction that we point our lives to be with Jesus. And then when we do, these kinds of things will happen, right? These kinds of things will just as a fruit and as a sign, these kinds of things will just happen when we. Right. When we pray for the sick, you know, they will recover. When we, you know, when we teach, that we'll teach as one with authority by by the um really by the Holy Spirit working in and through you and me. This is how these kinds of things start to happen. And so just yeah, and I think I think uh, you know, just to get to maybe a little bit what we wanted to talk to, sort of along the journey and the journey with Jesus, you know, um there there are there are things, right? Like you you were talking um earlier about a story that you you wanted to share, but just there are there are things that God's along the way uh sort of like puts his finger on. Yes. Like, hey, uh, you know, hey Dan, hey Anthony, I love you. And if as we if we're gonna keep moving forward on this journey, yeah, there's gonna be some things that you have to have to leave behind. Right. Right. So in this journey, as the refining, the redeeming, the unfolding of the new creation, like and again, like just I don't know if you wanted to just jump into that.

Refining Through Holy Discomfort

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Just like just really just the the point of like this is the refining work of God. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Yeah, so totally. Before I share this, to just say 100% amen, that that thing we've both discovered um is is yeah, here's where I'm gonna take you, Anthony. Here's where I'm gonna take you, Dan. Uh, and in order to go there, like you were saying, yeah, there's some there's some work we need to do right in you, yeah, on you. And and usually I find it starts to show up by discomfort. It starts to show up, I start to feel uncomfortable, I start to become aware of I love your presence, I love what you're saying to me, God. It can be in a public gathering or by myself, doesn't matter. Yeah, could be reading a book, hearing a worship song, whatever. Yep. And I just start to feel very uncomfortable on the inside. And it's like uh bit of a cringe, it's a bit of uh oh, I I think I think God might be moving me out of my comfort zone somehow. Right. And it usually has to do with not with with him saying, This is not because I'm interested in being harsh with you or re or I regret something about you. It's because you need we need to do some work here so that we can go forward.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah, this place we're gonna go like this. Because I think I think you know, I think what you're gonna share is like it's like everybody. Yes, right? Yeah, yeah. It's like everybody gets confronted from time to time with these kinds of things. So just

A Prophetic Picture About Insecurity

SPEAKER_00 24:49

yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

So I had an experience with the prophetic recently, and so part of this is just personal testimony, but it's also someone kind of discovering, exploring the prophetic. This is probably kind of just a testimony of my journey recently that might be helpful to you. So recently I was in a uh gathering, a prayer gathering, and I was being commissioned for an assignment. Um, uh, you know, it was just a responsibility that was gonna be new for me, and the group was praying for me. And one of the people, a trusted friend of mine, was praying for me. They're praying that God would bless this, uh, bless this thing I was gonna do, and just praying for me, and it was beautiful. But then they said, I saw this picture of me. This is where the prophetic comes in. Dan, I see this picture of you, and you're in you're you're in front of a bookcase, and the bookcase is full of books, but it seems like your back is turned to the the bookcase. And I see you turning to the bookcase, and you have a book in your hand, and it's in the book is a book of your insecurities. And you're looking for a place to put it on the shelf, but there's no room for it. And then then she went on and she prayed some other things for me. Didn't give me any, like we talk about the prophetic is the revelation, like what happened, what what how to come, yeah, what's the picture? Then there's the interpretation, which is what it means, and then there's the application, which is what do I do with this? And so all she brought was the revelation. Yeah, nothing about the prayer after it filled in the blanks. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting. As I often do, I just left it with the Lord. And as I as I you know left that prayer time, kind of returned to kind of normal life, it kept coming back to me. So I said, okay, Lord, that's a sign for me that I really should talk to you about it. So I began to ask him for revelation on it. Like, okay, I see the picture, what does it mean? Yeah, and so you know, the elements are the bookshelf, the full bookshelf. There's I'm holding in my hand this book of my insecurities, and that's all I had. Right. Right. So I began to pray into it. And I began to realize that that God was actually reminding me of a conversation he and I have been having for months, and that is I repent of the way I have always told my life story, God. Right. And Holy Spirit, I would love for you to tell me my story the way you want to tell it. And so retell me my story the way you want. And so I feel like he's been doing that. I feel like God was saying, okay, it has to do with that bigger conversation.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

So as I sat with that, I was very encouraged. And so I've been like kind of journaling about that a little bit. But uh just just actually in the past day or so, I've been feeling like God really calling me to press in a little more. So uh I I felt like I needed to do something with that book of my insecurities. And so I'm calling it that specifically because I'm tempted to want to call it my book of insecurities, but I don't, but I don't like that because that feels like it's almost like legit. Right. Like you're giving every I should have this. Right. And I realized, I was realizing that this book of my insecurities, I had written with the help of the enemy, probably. You know, um, that I was actually, this was a friendly thing to me. I knew I shouldn't have it, but I didn't want to let go of it. It was something I felt like I have affection for this.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

I've used and what I realized it's been you've perceived it to be helpful in your past.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

And I have you like yeah, really important tool in my toolbox. Yep. I've used it as, and what I began to realize is I have I have told my story and lived my story, translating it through this. Is what the Lord helped me to understand. Yeah, yeah. Translating it through my book. Yeah. Ooh, I almost the book of my insecurities, the book of your insecurities. I had you and I was translating so many life events, yeah. Translating it through that book. And I realized, oh, this is gross, God. I gotta get rid of it, but it doesn't feel gross to me. It feels like a treasure I don't want to go let go of. And so actually, literally, this early this morning, I said, God, I really want to have the real conversation with you. I said, unless I can label this, unless I can label the sin that's attached to this book.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

I I'm not gonna be able to repent of it. Yeah, I really need it labeled. Yeah, and it was uncanny. I I think it was probably 30 seconds at the most. I'm sitting there in my normal place of prayer, and what flew into my mind was, you're bearing false witness. Right. And I was like, okay, I never used that phrase. Right. The only phrase I've ever heard that and known it was in memorizing the Ten Commandments when I was a kid. Yeah, that's KJV. Yep. Bearing false witness. And I'm like, I don't even use that phrase. Yeah, yeah. So I said, Okay, God, I feel like that's the sin. And so I went to uh uh Biblegateway.com, which I love to use, um, and found out what the NIV said about it. It said, um, I think the phrase there was, you shall not give false testimony against your neighbor. I was like, ooh, that sounds interesting. Yeah, I've even told my testimony, yeah, translating it through the book of my insecurities. Ooh, this is getting okay. God, this book's beginning to smell in my hand. I was beginning to actually realize I don't want it. Then I went to the Amplified Bible and it made it even more specific to me. It said, You shall not testify falsely, that is, lie, withhold, or manipulate the truth against your neighbor or any other person.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Yep. Any other person, including myself. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

I was like, God, I've been I've been doing those things. I've been manipulating the truth, I've been withholding it translated through this book. And and I found myself wanting to get rid of it.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

So it it the process was God, and and and all of a sudden I realized I I need to burn this book. And I remembered, we talked about it last week. Our God is a consuming, let's worship him with reverence and awe because our God is a consuming fire. I said, God, I want to actually release this book into who you are.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

And I so I repent, I agree with you, it's sin. The sin is bearing false testimony about myself that that is gross and it's sin, and I I'm done with it. I renounced it and I released it into his fire. And then, of course, as we do, I said, I receive the Holy Spirit and anything that you want to give me, God, in the place of this lie. And um, I felt a deep sense of peace about it. And so later this morning I jumped onto a phone call with a trusted prayer warrior, part of my confessional community, and I said, This happened, but I need you to pray for me. And I shared all of this that I've just shared with you, I've shared with him. And he broke, he broke and bound the power of that sin and and prayed that that God would come and tell me the truth. Right. And that he would give me whatever he wanted to give me. And so I'm I'm just in this place of saying, God, I feel more ready than ever to not only let you tell me my story the way you want. Because to me, the full bookshelf felt to me like there's so much in the way the Holy Spirit wants to tell my story and our stories. Yeah, there's no room for this other book.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

Like this has no, there's no room for it.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Yeah, it wasn't like there was an empty shelf. It's like the Lord, the Lord has plenty for you and me and every believer to accomplish that it there's yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

I needed it for some reason. Yeah, but what was happening in my repentance was I was saying, I don't need it. Yeah, I agree with you, God. Yeah, and I put it into you. Yeah, that's true. And I'm done. So I it's gone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

And I yeah, well, I just say I think there's a I think I uh you know, I and we're heading somewhere here, but I just uh I really feel like um just identifying again, like there are things in every believer in my life, your life, just even out of what you were just sharing, Dan, and in every believer's life, there are things whether that's uh just but things, and I mean uh there's actually lies that we believe about ourselves, right? Like that that insecurities that we we may not even like there's there's plenty. I I'm sure I am one of those people who have a list of insecurities that I interpret my life through the lens of that book, right? Right. And I think this is like, and we don't, and we may not even necessarily uh feel like that that's a like that's not greedy, I'm not hateful, I'm not spiteful, I'm not lustful, I'm not, you know, right? Like the top of mind sort of sins. Yeah, but here we are in a in a thing like that that we're sort of dealing used to dealing with sort of like the high order, you know, like the just the the top of mind stuff, the stuff that's immediately obvious.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Like I think we're like behaviors, just just behavior, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Like, yeah, like uh what did I do or not do? Right. Like, but you're but we're we're in this place where we're we're digging deeper here and specifically, you know, you know, you and I have talked over the years about just things like uh things, and and this is a this is a freedom prairie kind of thing, about yeah, about having things like lies that we believe, or um, and it's it's a little bit more than that, but things that we have perceived to be helpful, right? Right. You think they're part of our so helpful to us because we could say, well, if I you know, if I and again we've talked about this from there's there's probably a way, an unsanctified way that we can interpret our lives that we think is actually helping our humility, right? Right, yeah, oh no, no, no, no. Like we could we could we could come across as humble, but in actuality, we're operating out of a spirit like of insecurity.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Yeah, right, totally, totally. Let's come if I come as humble, everyone's gonna be okay with me.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Right. Yeah, right. Even though I'm operating out of an insecure spirit, yes, right. Yeah, and so just to say God is okay because I like because I really like living in my insecurities, yes, right? In in the the fact that God has you know the God has so much for us, we can we can let ourselves off the hook by operating out of out of this insecure place, right? Right, and so yeah, and so I just think that that's a like we're we're we're getting to the heart of the issue here.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Well, you know, something I hadn't thought of that I'm thinking of right now in this moment that is uh it's an awesome thought, is uh because as as I was I got here, I got here to the studio early and was gonna well, I was waiting for you. Yeah, and and I was writing down and I was I was saying I was writing in my journal saying, God, do you want to redeem like the parts of me that were relying on this book of my insecurities? Yeah, you won't you don't want those parts just wandering around, like you want to redeem that, yeah, right? And I don't know how you want to do it, God, but but I trust that those parts of me that have been afraid and been relying on this, or whatever it is. Uh and and as we're talking, it's like wow, like there is that shelf not only represents the stuff we do, the relationships we have, yeah, things God does with us, it also and it also represents security. It's like this little book of my insecurities, yeah that I'm I can throw it into the fire. Yeah, I have. God doesn't well, guess what? You don't get to be secure.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

He actually says, Yeah, well, yes, I now they now because his security, his security is the greatest security of all right, right.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

And I'm looking at this bookshelf full of the fact that I am secure in him. Yes, yeah, and by getting by repentant by throwing away this book of of my own securities, I'm saying, God, you are faithful to replace that. And that it's just kind of hitting me now, like us being us knowing we are secure. God doesn't, he wants us to know we're secure, yeah. But it's bigger than we thought. Yes, like we're absolutely so secure, yeah, that there's literally nothing to be afraid of. Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Yeah, and if like, and again, this is the part where we this is the part, I think the heart turn is the part that all of us listen, just as full disclosure, I need I I need my heart turned as much as anybody. Right, right, because there are things uh and and and and I can't turn my own heart, you know? Right?

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Like, yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

I'm just aware, I'm just aware so many times that like I I need God intellectually I can ascribe to the fact that this is not helpful to my life. Right. And yet at the same time, I'm I'm I'm already aware. Like I look at them like uh I look at them like uh you know, it's like this um this it's it's like a blanket for me. That's how it hits me. This this old, tattered, dirty, janky old blanket. Right, but that's it, right? Like even as a kid, I totally have this like this image of a kid and this tattered old comfort thing. Yes, that this that kid, and we can all resonate with that, this thing that you know, I still have those things that I've that somehow my wife has kept from my childhood. Like these things in our lives that that are so comfortable to us, right? And the worst thing in the world is for us to uh to let go of those things because they're the place, they're the place of comfort that we have found. And again, I again to say that we have found we have discovered this place through hurts and uh you know uh the wounds and the cares of life. Like life happens, the troubles of this life. Yeah, and I gotta show up. So here's the domain. Exactly. And it's like, and and really those things that we have picked up, and in the Lord, I just and I need to say this that God's not condemning us for picking up those things. Absolutely. Like if anything, if anything, he's like, Yeah, I get it. Yeah, that I get get that you have you've tried to survive and you haven't known what is best. Yep. Right. And so, so here you are picking up these things along the way so that you can you can sort of get through, right? If if anything, right according to like the way you've seen it. And so here we are at this point, and he's like, I have something better for you, right? But you need to see that the thing that you're holding on to is not only uh it not only is it not doing the thing that you think it's doing, it's actually robbing you of life. Right? Yeah, it's actually robbing you of something greater. Okay, you know, I I hear the words of C.S. Lewis talking about like desire, right? Our desires are we actually are too easily satisfied by our own desires because we're looking for cheap, cheap, whatever, cheap, uh, cheap, you know, satisfaction. Um and it's really like I think it's like the the point is is that you and I have to come to this place of recognizing that our comfortable, that our come the thing that is bringing us comfort, our book of insecurities or whatever else, you know, has been a friend to us is actually like we need that moment of turning, that heart turning, the thing that the thing that we can't do. We need the Holy Spirit to actually reveal to us, you know, what this is actually doing to us. And again, that's like again, that's we're talking about self-comfort, we're talking about insecurities, anything that is um that really we've turned to, we've grabbed, we've we've um we've just become friends with these sort of unsanctified and dare I say even demonic things, right? Right, because anything that's not truth is a lie, right? Right. The book of insecurities is a was a dem, you know, was a demonic presence in your life and and my life. Right, right. Right. And so just the the the the idea, uh and again, I'm I feel like I'm just gonna circle the mountain again on this, but really it really is it comes down to will we let the Holy Spirit talk to us about those things in our life? Right, and again, you know, uh it is something that we could, you know, you might be listening to this now, going, I know there are there's this, there's this, there's this in my life. I can say intellectually this is true, right? And yet my heart wants this. Right. My heart want my heart wants that book of insecurities. Right. My my my my heart wants to hang on to that bitterness, right? That that anger. I want I want justice so badly that I need to I need to hang on to that bitterness or it won't happen. Right, right. Like you know what I mean, you know, those kinds of things, right? I do.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

And as a coaching to anybody who's feeling stirred up in this, as we're sharing, and I and I bet pe people are feeling stirred and and feeling the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

How To Name Sin And Let Go

SPEAKER_02 43:19

And we just want to bless that in your life. And um but just as a coaching thing, I know that that realizing that Book of My Insecurities was inappropriate for me to hang on to it. Yeah, I shouldn't have this. Yeah, I could have said, God, come and take it for me. Yeah, please come and take this from me. But we've learned that we need to pray differently than that. Yeah, God's not just gonna come and take this from me. Yeah, but He's actually calling me to let go of it. Yeah, and so I just want to encourage anybody uh you will you will find yourself on the treadmill, you'll find yourself circling the mountain, you'll find like you. Just will you just keep going in circles if you keep asking God? I know these things are off in my life. Please come and take them from me.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

Unless you got something to say. Like, I just think there's a prayer, there's a question that often gets asked in freedom prayer sessions. It's like, Holy Spirit, can you show me how like how this has affected my life? Yes. By hanging on to this, yes, whatever this thing, this bitterness, rage, could be lust, could be uh insecurities, could be all of that stuff. Could you show me how that has affected my life? Absolutely. And the Holy Spirit will do like yes, he will do it. So rather than again, because he will because I dare say this, like the Holy Spirit love will and loves to show you the truth. Yes. Right. So he won't, he won't take it from you, right? You'll have to lay that down willingly. But what he will do, he he will show you the consequences of hanging on to that janky old, yes, comfortable thing.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Right, right. Exactly. Right, exactly. So that, yes, I encourage you ask the Holy Spirit to show me how it's affecting my life and show me the sin. What is this called? Yep. Give this sin a title for me. Yeah, help me name this sin. And he will. He'll help you name the sin. And when you can name it, you can get free from it. Right. You can call it sin.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

And I would say, like, once you actually see in the light of who God is, yeah, and the light of who he's made you to be, right? When you actually truly see, and yeah, not just and um when I say see, believe. That's what I mean. Yes. When you believe from God's perspective of what about what that thing is and what it's been doing, like it will be the easiest thing in the world to let go.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

Yes. Right, exactly. Right, right. Totally, right? Just surrender it to the fire. Right. Either, you know, bring to the fire or as we often do, you know, bring it and give it to Jesus at the cross. Right. Surrender it to Jesus, let go of it at the cross of Jesus and the wounds of Jesus. And then the other thing that that I just want to highlight again is I knew I needed to call somebody that would expect this kind of call from me.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

That, hey, would you pray with me to bind and break the influence of that? Like I need to, I was forgiven. God forgave me. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

I was and you were forgiven before that. Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Right? But I but sharing it with someone, getting it out in the light, that that I went through this process. Pray for me that I that the influence of this would be bound and broken and have to go. Yeah. And I am now receiving the Holy Spirit and the truth wants to be. I just want to encourage those couple of things. Yeah. Ask the Holy Spirit to show you the effect of it's having, help you label the sin so that you can repent of it, agree with God, renounce it, and then share it with a trusted friend. Yeah. To pray for grace over your life on it.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Yeah. And I feel like, you know, here as we land the plane, like I just I feel like I think maybe did I pray last

A Prayer To Release And Receive

SPEAKER_00 47:22

year? Um, I don't know, but I feel like you should. Okay, all right. Right, like because again, like I I think that like we're in a you know, in terms of like Holy Spirit, show us, you know, and again, I feel like, you know, if you've made it this far in the conversation, you know what those things are. And maybe the Holy Spirit has highlighted, highlighted one or multiple things in your life. And just then maybe just pray, just walk us through a prayer, Dan. And just uh letting those things go.

unknown 47:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Yeah. Uh we just praise you, God, for your we we praise you, God, for the fact that you are our refuge and strength and you are our salvation. Uh praise you, God, for it is for freedom that you have set us free. God, thank you for uh thank you, God, for um your your revelation in our life. We thank you that we are your workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works. But we also, together with with our listeners, and Anthony and I here in the studio, and our listeners, we just agree together uh that that uh that in order to go forward with you, there's work that you need to do in our lives. Yeah. Yeah. And you are faithful to do it, God. So we we pray right now over our lives, over the listeners, God, that that you would show them these things that they know they need to let go of. Show them the effect that these things are having on their life. Show them from your perspective, Holy Spirit. And would you, God, give a name to that sin? Yeah, help them to understand from you this is what the sin is. And God, we pray that that they would grab onto the grace to agree with you on it, to say, I am taking this off, I'm getting rid of this. Yeah, I'm I'm right now renouncing that sin and I am bringing it to Jesus at the cross. Whether you're seeing it uh the wounds of Jesus or the fact that he is a consuming fire, either way, I am releasing it to you, Jesus, at the cross. Yeah. And God, we just pray that that they would know the joy of receiving the Holy Spirit and all that you want to give them. God, thank you for how awesome and present your kingdom is on earth as it is in heaven. Thank you. We get to walk with you in this and that the adventure lies before us. You are so good. We love you, God. Amen. Amen. Well, that's a wrap on this episode. It's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest as we all learn to hear God better.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

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