The Hearing God Podcast
Each week, for over a decade, Anthony Moore and Dan Lamos have met for coffee. They process, pray, follow rabbit trails, and talk openly about what it really looks like to hear from God. Now you're invited to pull up a chair.
The Hearing God Podcast explores what it means to live a Spirit-led life in the everyday. The moments of clarity and the moments of confusion. The risk of stepping out and the grace that meets you when you do. Each episode blends prophetic insight with honest, practical conversation so you leave not just informed, but moved.
If you're hungry to know God more deeply, not just know about Him, this is for you.
The Hearing God Podcast
Revival: Waves, Tides, and the End Goal
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Questions? Fun God stories? Let us know!
Revival can feel like a wave that crashes in, changes everything, and then mysteriously pulls back. We sit down and trace the moments that formed us and the questions they still raise: What is happening when a room is charged with hunger and the Holy Spirit seems to be directing the night?
We share personal stories from the 90s, including a massive Promise Keepers pastors gathering in Atlanta where Jesus’ prayer in John 17 for unity became impossible to ignore, plus memories of worship gatherings where young people came to Jesus without a sermon-driven strategy. We also revisit the Toronto Blessing and the Father’s heart emphasis, and we talk plainly about agency: powerful encounters don’t have to mean losing control, and sometimes the simplest truth is that people don’t want to leave because God’s presence feels like home.
We land on Ephesians 3 as the ultimate destination of spiritual awakening: strengthened by the Spirit, rooted and grounded in love, and filled with all the fullness of God. If this conversation helps you name what you’ve experienced and where God might be taking it, subscribe, share the episode with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find it.
Welcome And Set The Table
Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast. I'm Anthony Moore. And I'm Dan Lamus. For over a decade, Anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical, and the matters of the heart. And we invite you into these weekly conversations. We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table. So pull up a chair, settle in, and let's get started. Well, here we are. Here we are. Here we are. Here we are. Here we are. How's it going, Dan? Going, going well. Yeah. Yeah. Going well. I uh yeah. Just continue to be be grateful. Um I guess probably the thing for me this morning would be just grateful to not be doing the walk with Jesus alone. Yeah. And in new, I guess in some refreshing ways, just really being grateful for doing the walk with doing the life with with other brothers and sisters in Christ. And you know, yeah, the value of that. It's really grateful. Uh I had
Gratitude For Not Walking Alone
this thought this morning, actually, just after you um sent out there was a text thread that you sent out a prayer in this morning. Right, yeah. And I had this thought in my whatever, always thinking and wondering. And uh my the way that I've sort of like, why do we do that? Like the wondering in the invention part of my brain. Um, I I was like, you know what we need? We need a Dan Lamus prayer book. Oh, yeah. Because like for real, like I'm sure it wouldn't be uh a stretch to say that you have recorded a ton of your prayer. Like you write your you write your prayers down in a in a given season. Yeah, but like I've always said, you know, there's if you were to go into Dan's office, you would see, you know, dozens of journals that have been been there throughout the years. And I just had this thought this morning of like, we need a Dan Lamus prayer book, because just be just a you know, because I think you know your your ability to articulate how you're feeling um is is pretty good. And I think and and I think it's not and it's relatable, it's it's accessible, like you don't use terribly, uh, you know, it's not like it's intellectually, you know, you're not using big theological terms. That's what I'm getting at. So I think it's accessible, but I wonder I'm just saying, uh I'm sliding this across the table right now, and just be like, Hey, everybody who's listening, this is very pleasant, but I was completely not expecting this conversation. So I received that. Yeah, my brother. I'm just saying, like, I think yeah, the world would be better if we had a Dan Lamus. So yeah, I mean, we don't call it the Dan Lamus uh prayer book, but we call it something else as well written by Dan. Thank you so much, and that that's huge. Uh and just for the sake of you, my friend, and everybody that's listening, I I do try to figure this out often how over the over the years I've had this joy in in crafting prayers that mean a lot to me, yeah, but I think could help somebody. Yeah, and and it's almost as if I didn't come up with that idea. It's like uh it's it's feels it feels a bit like a calling, just to kind of put it out there. Yeah, and I I do want to say that I do have a a substack, uh Dan Lamus Prayer. Yeah. Um, and
The Prayer Book Idea And Substack
it's really for that purpose of just saying, okay, here's here's what I'm praying. And if, and I guess the way I like to say it there is these are my like shared heart cries. Yeah. And hopefully they can maybe spark your your own conversation with God. I would I'm thrilled about that. Um, thank you for mentioning that, Anthony. I think be very helpful with someone, anybody who would read it and just uh because I think the thing that I think the mark of a little bit of your story and mine is, but I think you're slightly you I think not slightly better. I think you're better at it than I am, is just the um the willingness to be vulnerable about your processing with the Lord. Right. I just think there's I think I don't know, like it's not like I'm I have a I don't really have a whole lot to hide, but I think you just I think you do it a better job of articulating it. And there's just you're a little bit free. It seems as though, maybe I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but it seems as though you're a little bit freer with it than I am, yeah. And not that I'm terribly locked up about it, but I'm just I'm but um maybe a little bit more hesitant. Maybe I don't know, maybe that's just how I'm feeling right now. Hey, hey, you know, if everybody could see us right now, I'm lying down on the couch and Anthony's my therapist, and that I feel like something happened here in the last couple minutes. Yeah, yeah. But thank thank you for even bringing that up. And I I I feel like I feel like if there's something I would say, if there's something I'm good at, is um there there have been decades of asking God, yeah, what's the point of my calling? And I don't mean that in any kind of weird way. It's just like I don't get myself a lot of times, God. Yeah, and I've felt different times from the spirit and through a few brothers and sisters in Christ saying, Well, it's okay if you don't get yourself, keep going on the journey because the stuff you share helps me. I'm like, okay, yeah, so somewhere in there, I'm like, maybe that's actually the answer to my question. Yes, that whatever I process, there's something in there that could be helpful to somebody else. Yeah, and I've just sort of grabbed onto that. And it's like I literally wrote in my journal this morning, I wish I would have brought it down. I wrote down God, the stuff that you've you've allowed me to uncover, I want like I feel like you want me to impart that as a good thing. It's like grabbing Paul's Paul's language. Yeah, I'd like to come see you so I can impart some good thing. Yeah, I feel like God's helping me to see that yeah, as at this age and stage of my life, and again, maybe there's people listening who are at the similar stage I am in life. Don't underestimate the value of what you've uncovered over the years that would be helpful to somebody. Right. And yeah, so just like a parting of well, there you there you go. So uh soon to be released Dan Lamis Book of Prayer, a book of personal prayers. Uh yeah, so I mean, I thought I thought that was uh I think this is a I think this is a great idea. Of all the ideas, I'm not I don't tend to be short on ideas. I tend to be at times short on good ideas, but like um ideas, ideas often come to me in uh you just can't hold them in. But yeah, so that's good. Uh that's good. That's good. All right.
Defining Revival And Asking For Stories
Um, what let's just uh I know we've been talking the last couple weeks on revival. Yes. Um in you know, we sort of had a cursory chat before this. We push record on this one, but uh just wanted to maybe like keep going with this the idea of revival in you know the inbreaking kingdom of God and the rising tide and whatever language you want to put around that. I I felt like this would be a good, a good place. I thought, you know, it would be a good idea to say, like, okay, so we talk about revival. Like, what's been, you know, your personal experience in revival? Like, what was that like for you? What do you remember of it? I think for both of us, um, I could be wrong, but I think for both of us, the first time we experienced an environment where we could say, like, uh we experienced a gathering of people where it seemed like what we would describe as revival would have been maybe about 30 years ago-ish. Right, yeah, ish, maybe in the early mid-90s. And uh, you know, that's not to, you know, cancel out any time, you know, where we had meaningful moments with God before that again. But I think that something on that scale. Yeah, but uh, there's just to be this what what I would say is there's this collective uh gathering where there is hunger and the activity of the Holy Spirit, there's excitement, there's maybe a little bit of passion, but uh but there is this sense of like God is here, he's doing something unusual, and I'm here to to receive like with opening. Pockets of time where it seems like the Holy Spirit is in charge and actually directing the room and it's obvious. Yes, yeah. So maybe talk a little bit like what was what was that like for you? Maybe even a little bit of the lead up to that, right? Right. And so how that that hit you, because I think we're we're anyway. Go, I'm gonna, I'm done talking. Like just maybe throw it over to you and talk about a little bit, like what was that like for you to, and then we'll we'll we'll try and circle it around to what we feel like God is doing today and these days, yeah. But maybe for the first time, like what was that like for you to be uh in a room like that in a situation like that? And how did you get there? Right.
Atlanta Pastors And John 17 Unity
Okay. So I haven't I don't know if I've talked with you much about this experience, but it did come back to me when we were preparing for this episode that uh I would I had the privilege of being part of a massive gathering of of North American pastors in Atlanta, Georgia. I think it was in 1997. Right. Uh it was called together by promise keepers. Uh but there were tens of thousands of pastors and Christian leaders gathered in this arena uh for two or three days. And uh it was for the purpose of just really exalting uh Jesus, exalting the kingdom of God, right? Moving together. Um one of the sessions was focused on what they called slaying the slaying the giant of denominationalism. Like that our denominations we have tended to divide over our identifying in Christian denominations. And make a long story short, I heard this amazing presentation on John 17. Yes. That that would it hit me far deeper than just making sense to me. Right. I felt like God was calling me to give my give my life, give my focus to seeing his prayer fulfilled uh in our day. John 17 to verses 20 to 26. Everybody can check it out. Part of Jesus' prayer there, but it's all about being unified by his love and his glory, and through that the whole world would be convinced that he actually was sent from God. Right. So, in what I wanted to say there is in that arena of thousands of pastors, I watched over those couple of days all of our inhibitions come down. Right. That by by the time we got to that session, which was about a day and a half in, pastors were lifting their hands in worship, right? Being very exuberant, um, emotionally, getting down on their knees spontaneously, dancing, doing all these things that in the first session they weren't doing. And I watched before my eyes these pastors, and I had this thought if they were to go home and act like that that in their congregations this weekend, yeah, there would be some raising. And yet, and so I felt like the Spirit of God was saying to me, Dan, they're being themselves. Wow, they usually don't get to be themselves. Yeah, and what's happening in this arena is is real, yeah. And so authenticity, uh you know and being themselves from God's perspective, right? Yeah, from his perspective, not being, you know, their own, you know, acting out of their own thing, but they were going to anything, right? They were acting more out of who they were designed to be. Yeah, and that involved commu connecting with all these people around us. But when the climax got to John 17, hey, we've tried all these other ethic methods of convincing the world Jesus really is the Lord, yeah. Why don't we try his method? Right. And I and it floored me. Right. And that I that arena, and I sort of expected lots of my friends who were there with me were gonna come back with the same passion and conviction. Right. But I realized it was pretty personal for me, right, right, right that I needed to embrace this, that this was a theme for revival. So I'm saying all that to say a theme of revival was unity based on Jesus' prayer being answered. Okay, that was a theme. But another quick theme I remember was in those years of the early 90s was it seemed like there was an anointing on the youth population of the world coming together in arenas to worship. Yeah, that in worship, in the context of worship, yeah, youth all over the world were coming to know Jesus. Right. Well, did you preach a salvation message? No, we just worshiped Jesus for an hour and a half and kids were coming to Jesus. They were coming and surrendering their lives. We saw that come back here to our local area through some youth and revival uh youth worship and prayer nights that we hosted. Yeah. We we said, hey, there's something on this. We saw hundreds of kids come together in in different high school auditoriums and stuff, and we weren't presenting a sermon. We were worshiping Jesus. Yes, and kids were coming in the middle of that. We just simply would stop about halfway through and say, Hey, if you don't know Jesus tonight, there's people all around you who do, yeah, why don't you just raise your hand and somebody near you is gonna pray for you? Yeah, and they did, and kids were coming to Jesus without a big plan. We were worshiping, and I felt like okay, unity, worship evangelism, this is it, this is what we're gonna do for the rest of our lives. And that's what
Worship That Sparks Conversions
I really thought. And then quickly to just real quickly, and then I'll shoot it back over to you. Yeah, for sure. Then just quickly back to um all of a sudden discovering mid-90s, I guess. There was this thing going on in Toronto, yeah, the Toronto blessing, yeah, which was all about the the spirit of God is here and focusing on the Father. Yeah, the Father wants to come and actually show his people who he is again. Yes. And there were pastors and leaders from thousands of them from around the world coming to Toronto, yeah, to really be overcome by the spirit. Oftentimes they'd end up laying on the floor, crying, laughing, fully conscious. They could get up off the floor anytime they want. And I and you know, but they what was happening was they were meeting the father, and the father was unpacking stuff in them and saying, You thought I was like this. I'm showing you I'm like this. And it was just called the Father's Blessing, yep. The father's heart blessing, Toronto blessing. And I thought, oh, well, this is it forever. Yeah, right. And so it's funny, yeah. I know, because it just it feels I wonder if it's that that you know, sometimes I would it's this connection. Let me try to unpack this a little bit, like with because eternity, right? Like because when we get around God, we get in the presence of God, there's a sense of the eternal, right? Right. And so we're it would not surprise me if we were we had that sense that this is not this is not going to like you know what I'm saying? This is because that's so good because I think I think and and again, like there's a distracted by the themes, right? But it was really like when the Lord is present, yes, because there is, you know, again, in because we're gonna be with the Lord forever, like, but we're going to be, it's gonna be the same presence of God, right? That will be in like perfectly in perfect union. Wow. I get I guess, and so why we would sort of be uh
Toronto Blessing And The Father’s Heart
awakened to the notion that we could do that forever, the thing that is is being the presence of God. Yeah, right. And so I just I just I feel like there's a little bit of a man. That's like a that's like a gem right there because I just personal testimony, I do remember you know that season where we hosted those worship and prayer events here in the city, yeah, which were they where they were named Revival Town, yeah. And any of you from back in the day remember the band Delirious, we were always working off of delirious song titles because they seem to be capturing the the moment, the the feet the flavor of the moment there. Uh but anyway, just to say, I do remember after having been at Toronto and picking up on the revival atmosphere there, yeah. Having been in Atlanta for that gathering, felt the same thing in the air there. Yeah. So I am gonna come back to a punchline. And I remember at the first revival town thinking, God, is this really legit what we're doing here? And it within moments feeling the same thing in the room. Yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah, it's happening right here, God. Yeah, so it's funny that you would say that because I think what I was sensing was that the eternal presence of the one. Yes. Yes. And so I, you know, again, like I think um we always, you know, it's hard for humans and people like again, like I've been on this journey and have been with, you know, the the prophetic people around me. You know, you're in a room, oftentimes, you know, I would call myself what they would call a feeler, right? They would be, you know, and that's I'm not necessarily going to opact that, but I'm just aware of how I feel in a room. And I'm oftentimes trying to discern you know what's going on with the Lord. Like, is this me or am I perceiving something else happening in the room, good, bad, or indifferent, right? So I have uh just been, you know, aware of like I can be in different rooms, be aware of the presence of God, and you know, at different, you know, sometimes it's like a level one out of ten, sometimes it's a level ten out of ten. You know what I'm saying? Like, and so we get in these rooms, and sometimes it's only in hindsight where I'm sort of like I've left the room and I'm sort of reflecting on what that gathering was. Right. Yeah, and then I will assess, like, oh wow, God was really there. Yeah. And uh, so you just the it's just the way of human trying to, at least that's how my brain works, of just humans did not your heart burn within you. That's exactly that's exactly right. And you always find yourself trying to process and make sense of what a given, at least I do anyway, uh what a given room, what was going on in the room. Oh, I totally do that. And again, like yeah, so so I think Linda's on to our next project that I'm I'm still thinking about that thing we did 20 years ago. Yeah, and I think for me, um, where I was sort of like I was, you know, I was brought up in a Pentecostal church, and you know, from my early, early years, I had what I would say is I would any connection to what we've been talking about would come from these places of these places of like we'd have a uh traveling speaker come in, right? And they would come and we'd have these special meetings and for a few days or whatever, maybe a weekend, or you know, a few times, a few days during the week, you know. And and we would have these gatherings, and as a as a as a child and as a you know, a teenager, I would have these moments with God where you would have the altars will be filled, there'd be prayer and prophetic ministry, you know, people, people speaking in tongues, occasionally falling over, those kinds of things. Right. Which I do wanna, and I wanna I I'm gonna put a pen in this, you know, because you mentioned this as well, right? But when we call we call these sort of things the man, the manifestations of the Holy Spirit. Right, right, right. And there's not, there's actually a reason why we do that, right? And even though some of these things may not be biblical, what we would say is that they are at least traditional, right? Going going back to revivals of the past 50, 100 years, all the way back to at least, and again, from my I'm sure it's longer than this, but I remember like if you read accounts of the Great Awakenings, like 300 years ago, right? There are similar, very similar quote unquote manifestations of the Holy Spirit, where there's there's loud cries, there's overcome, there's laughter, there's there's these things over time that seem to, and again, we would go back to the Welsh Revival, the Hebrides, right, you know, Azusa Street, those, these kinds of things.
Manifestations And Human Response
We would see similar kinds of things happening. Right. When, you know, uh as the can I can I mean who knows if this is right, but it seems as though as the intensity of the activity of the Holy Spirit goes up, humans tend to respond in these kind of ways. Unusual ways. Unusual ways, right? And so we just want to just to say that like and and now I've now that I put a pin in that, I can't remember where. Oh, it was uh back in as a teenager. Yes, yeah. So we scheduled the special services. Yeah, the special services, right? With an expectation God's gonna walk. Absolutely. Yeah. And then there was again, you know, there was though there were those times, and again, like as a teenager, you know, you sort of have a in hindsight, you realize you sort of had a limited understanding of what was going on because it was all very yeah, somebody must know what's happening here. Exactly. I'm just here and I just I'm just gonna worship Jesus and Europe, you know. But um one of the the first time where I would say that I had experienced revival, and I probably talked about this a little bit, what was in really in connection with the Toronto blessing, where I remember, you know, in the early 90s, probably 94, 95, starting to hear about something happening in Toronto. Right. And I remember that people started going and experiencing it and then coming back. Bringing it back on. And whatever that means. What is the even that means? But but it was fairly undeniable about what was actually happening because there was something invisible, like we would say in the spirit that something happened, whether there was some, you know, uh maybe like, I don't know, again, like there was whether there was an angel that traveled back with that person, or there was some like God was God sort of was resting upon that person in a specific way, or right, you know, some some other thing, some other so I'm so many ways of trying to describe it. I'm gonna I'm not gonna build a theological heel, but there was something undeniable that was happening. Yep. And so what in the f in the course of that, as that happened, there seemed to be this increase in our Sunday gatherings, you know, in those days we were going to church on Sunday morning and Sunday night. Right as well. Yes, I remember, yeah. But there seemed to be this increase in these of the intensity and the activity of the Holy Spirit in in our gatherings. Yeah. And so what I would say is like, and for me, and for my for what I experienced, for my recollection, it was actually quite short. It may have been a number of months, you know, it was actually like maybe, you know, six weeks to two months, where we had this ramp up, and then you know, some things happened, and then it sort of like petered out a little bit. But there was in the middle of that, like I could legitimately say that was the first time I experienced in an environment that I would call like a revival type environment because I was in this collective group of people, and there was this intensity, there was this hunger, there was this passion and zeal for the Lord, you know, and it was creating like maybe a little bit of it was creating leadership problems where you know, yeah, maybe we were like, what do we do? This is weird. Uh all these people are so excited to be in in in church and in the presence of God, right? And there's dancing and there's shouting, and there's like it got a little bit like, okay, so okay, and how do we figure out exactly because this is not what we've traditionally known a church service to be. Right. Right. But I I guess that was a little a little bit of like my sort of like my first sort of foray into what uh what we would call revival. And and you were actually like you actually went there, like you were actually in Toronto. Yes, yes, that's so in the sort of the mid-90s. Yeah, they were on two or three different occasions. I was there for other projects, and yet I had the opportunity for you know to go uh to a couple evening sessions at at the Toronto Airport Vineyard, yeah, which eventually became the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship. I guess that's what it was originally. Now it's catch the fire or something like that. Right, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I was there, and I remember the um I do remember the the the crowd being so intrigued with what was going on, but nobody could deny something very real and powerful was happening. Right. Um I remember which would have been like I think it was the original location of the Airport Curtian Fellowship. Yeah. Uh so this would have been somewhere in late 1994, early 95. I was there. Yeah. Then they built a beautiful large uh new facility a few years later or whatever. But I remember especially being there on that in on that evening, and Pastor John Arnott was was leading the time, doing a little bit of teaching, but he was calling people up to pray for them. And I remember this one man uh being
Agency While God Moves Powerfully
overcome uh by what the spirit was doing, and he you know was laid out on the floor and he was laughing a little bit, and but he was just kind of there, and I remember Pastor John just talking to the crowd, walking them through what was going on. Yeah, like does anybody have any questions? People would ask a question, and let's just say the guy's name was Bob. I don't remember it's a great name, Bob. But but I remember him saying, Do any of you here think that Bob is not conscious and he's not able to control what's happening to him? And a few people raise their hands like, yeah, I'm wondering about that. He said, Well, hey Bob, are you are you able to hear what I'm saying? Oh yeah, yeah, cool. Um hey, could you stop anytime you want? Yeah. Yeah. Saying, Well, Bob, is is is the Lord ministering to you? Oh yeah. Yeah. And all the while this guy's laying on the floor with his eyes closed. Yeah. And him saying, Well, could you get up anytime you want? He said, Yeah, I could. Yeah. I said, Well, do you want to, Bob? He goes, No, I just want to stay here. And he just walked us very candidly through what was happening for this man. And just the experience of him walking us through that as a crowd to say, folks, like, yeah, this isn't like what's happening to Bob, the fact that he's laying there and laughing, and this is happening. There's nothing special about this. Yeah. What's special about this is as a human being, this is overwhelming to him, and God's doing beautiful ministry in him. Right. And he's not out of control. Right. Right. Bob could stop any of the stuff he's doing anytime, but it's in reaction to what God's what matters is what God's doing. Yes. Yes. And then we may see all kinds of unusual reactions because human beings can't handle this kind of, at least in our current state, we tend to not be able to handle this kind of presence of God. And we're just saying that's not going to stop us from receiving what God wants to give us. Totally. So, God, however, people need to respond, we're not going to get in your way. Yes. And I've had these, I've had the same conversations with people over the years, right? And again, even in my own experiences where, you know, I have been overcome, you know, with the presence of God and He's been doing things where I've ended up on the floor, right? I've never, I've never felt out of control, right? And again, like I'm I'm saying I think we could use generalities here, right? Because again, I have, you know, at times felt like there's been you're heard stories of people being like describing certain situations where they were like quote unquote glued to the floor or whatever. But I would say in general, generally speaking, when God comes and he's and sort of the intensity ramps up, he he generally will won't remove your agency in the whole thing. That's right. Right. There will be a sense of, and I would say that for for I think you know, for the vast majority of these moments with God that I I just haven't wanted to leave. Right. Right. Yes. You know, there's something well there's something that happens in this place. There's a I don't know. I don't like this. I've never been had been tasked with trying to articulate it, but it is it is almost like it is it's closer to heaven almost in these places because uh like why would you and again we've uh you could draw this connection to people who have you know had near death experiences and gone to heaven and not wanted to leave, right? You know, I would say that in these places on earth where the the atmosphere, the activity of the Holy Spirit and the presence and the intensity of the Holy Spirit is ramped up, the less I find myself like I'm like, why would I want to leave this? Right, right? Who cares what's happening in my body, right? Right, but in my heart, my spirit, there is a it's like it's it's something else is happening. It's almost like this is where I've you know, I've uh meant I'm meant to be. Like I'm just meant to be here. Like there's something right, there's something so right about this moment. And that mo like then and the thing that's right is is God Himself. Right. Right. And so and so like you're cheapers, that's probably the first time I've tried to articulate something, something like, but again, like as as these these ebbs or these flows, like that it seems like these outpourings of the spirit have happened throughout, and that's why, like, again, like we were uh Dan and I and uh a friend of ours uh on the team, um Pastor Kirk Smith, we were you know in a prayer moment and in a space last night where we invent invited the Holy Spirit to come. Yes, and you get a little, you get a little taste of that, right? You get a little bit of like, oh, this even in hindsight, we're like, oh, this is you're sensing the peace that comes with the presence of God. And he's doing deep work in different ones around the room, and you're there, you know, blessing it, right, you know, following his leading, and you find, but like there's something so right about being in a room like that, yeah and in a space like that, right? Because it's him. And so and so I just I thought I think, you know, these are just um, you know, being in rooms where there is outpourings is uh awesome. Yes. And yet at times, you know, with you know, one thing, one of the things to sort of to you know, very real walking through is when it seems like there's a there's an ebb, right?
When Revival Feels Like It Ebbs
Like there's right, like the I don't yeah, actually, I don't know what um the tide terms like where it seems like the tide. When it reduces when it res like when the it seems like the tide's coming in, and then it seems like where the tide's going out. Right. And you know, after those maybe intense times of the 90s, I would say that it seemed as though there was an outflow where there was in the you know, in the church, it wasn't it would seem like there was maybe less hunger, right? There was uh there I don't know, like again, I don't want to be, I'm not I'm let me say this is an observation rather than because it wasn't like it was more like this corporate thing, right? It was more because again, I was in plenty of rooms, I was in plenty of worship services where God was, and you know, I had plenty of moments with God, but there was something else like in that corporate sense, and maybe protracted like over time where it seemed like a little bit of a less, there was something less going on. Right. I don't know, again, hard to articulate. Right, yeah, but again, like we would say that, you know, we would, you know, we were still doing our thing, we were still gathering every Sunday, you know, you were still traveling around and speaking from times. We were still, you know, trying to, you know, create these moments, we were still coming up with things to do. Yeah, but but it seemed like the tide was out a little bit, like we were trying to chase something maybe that was in the rear view mirror a little bit. Yeah, I don't know, like yeah talk to me. I don't know. This is my this is my no, it's it's it's very intriguing because it's hard to it's hard to know, like scripturally speaking, how to completely defend what I'm gonna say next. Yeah, it's probably there, but I I don't know that I've heard it really like put together in a great
Waves, Resentment, And Letting Go
way, but but I do remember that an author and prophetic uh minister named Rick Joyner. Yeah, yeah, he was the first one I ever heard talk about uh revivals, times of revival being like waves hitting the beach. Right. And when the tide's coming in, right, the flow is amazing, yeah. And you're thinking this is this is the this is the flow of the tide that's gonna rule over all other tides. Yeah, and then suddenly the tide's going out. The tide's going out. Like, uh what's happening? And and he was the first one I ever heard talk about you know how easy it is to begin resenting. Yeah, if you're part of the latest, the latest wave to hit the beach, and then as it's uh receding and the tide's going out, and a new wave is coming in. If you are part of the old wave, yeah, but there's an opportunity to be bitter and resentful. Hey, my wave was the one. Yeah, where are you guys coming along saying this is the new wave? As as if it was your wave. Yeah, right. All that and he was the first one to talk about the wisest thing you can do is let go of that and repentance and be part of the the new thing that God's doing, the next thing God's doing. And he was the first one I ever heard talk about that, but it has really helped me out many times um to to just when it because what I know what I have noticed over the years is when some of those movements begin to wane a little bit, uh there was the opportunity to start blaming ourselves or somebody else or well, well, we can blame the excesses. Look at that. All the crazy came in, and then it's like oh, okay. Or maybe it was just a sovereign moment, similar to, and I just want to make a quick reference to this, similar to the experience Peter, James, and John had on the Mount of Transfiguration. There, I right, and I think there's because again, 100% glory of the world. And I think I think, you know, I think it's probably a little bit of both, right? Like I think that, you know, in my experience, uh, what happened was is that in understandable fear, right? Like I I don't blame people for reacting to fear, but I do I do think at times, I mean again, it could be a legitimately sovereign move of God. And also, I I but I wonder, I've I've heard, you know, again, I've just been around and seen places where understandably people start to react in fear. Yes. And maybe leaders try to do something out of fear because this is all unusual. What's even happening? I don't understand. This is inducing stuff. Right. Like I've lacked the I don't I feel out of control. I feel, you know, all these things that are very normal human responses to to a something unusual happening. Right. And so, but what I have noticed is like I I've always wondered, this is this is let me just maybe position it like this. I was, I was all, I would always wonder like what would have happened if the leader went, I'm not gonna act out of fear. I'm going, we're going to we're going to go another way, act out of love. Right. But but but like because fear will cause you to clamp down on things and try to try to get control of things. Right. And the fear, like on legitimately, like when wild things are happening, like you can feel 100% out of control. Right. Right. And so I anyway, I'm just I don't want to I just uh derail what you were trying to say, but I just at times, and I'm I'm I'm not you know discounting what you're saying. I think legitimately there are yeah, there are sovereign ebbs and flows, right?
Mountaintop Moments For Hard Days
Right. And so I've appreciated recently N T Wright's take on on like what was the Mount of Transfiguration all about and what was that supposed to mean to the disciples. Yes, yes, didn't take Jesus out of his game, yeah. But to the disciples, what was that supposed to mean? Yeah, and his take on it is very refreshing. Yeah, he's saying, you know, what they experienced up on that mountain was real, yeah, but it's not where they're gonna do the daily life, like like the heaven and earth reality, yeah. Like they like his take on it is partially that was for Peter, James, and John to not lose heart, yeah, because it was about to get really rough, yeah. Yeah, and part of it was hey, don't forget, guys, what you saw and experienced there because that was real, and it is real today, even yeah when you're down from the mountain and yeah, you're facing this heart situation and and in not many days like soon to come is gonna be Jesus actually being crucified and the whole in that whole journey for them. Yeah, and his take on it is those those moments where where the wave would go way up the beach, yeah, and we feel like it's a new mark, we're not gonna ever leave here, is to say, no, remember what's possible, guys. Well, it's you know, and it it creates this, and even in the middle of hard to manage, yeah, uh hundred percent because my concern is that I want to throw this out there too. Like, even just the maybe the most recent one that we've heard about was that the what they call uh uh the the the Asbury
Asbury Outpouring And What Lasts
outpouring. Yes, yes, they were literally breaking the infrastructure of the town right because of the volume of people, like right in Wilmore is not a large town. There's I don't know if I don't know if there's a thing. A very large kingdom moment was happening, right? And I don't know, I don't even know if there was more than a thousand or two thousand people. So it's a very small community, right? And what was happening was literally breaking this like the the systems of the town, like the water, you know, water and you know, plumbing and sewage and all of that stuff was was was strained right under the just the sheer uh volume of town council that please stop inviting people to your event. Like don't like we're not inviting. Yes, but it was like, but again, like and I don't blame like God and I legitimately God wasn't angry that they couldn't figure out yes, because they tried to, and again, but it did end up like that way that wave, sort of like the tide went out on that wave, right? Right, and so, or at least from uh like from a perspective of thousands of people stopped getting on planes and trying to get there. I get you, yeah. Right. So, so again, I think there's lasting fruit to that, 100%. But but in that way that we would understand revival, right? Um, the the the tide sort of went out on that. And I don't think that God was mad at that. Like I don't think he was even grieved at that. Like he knew sovereignly, like I'm gonna do this thing. There's gonna be a whole like tens and even a hundred thousand young adults and adults are gonna be in this room for this 14 to whatever 16-day period, and I'm gonna do a whole lot there. Right. And and God knew that the town couldn't handle it, but he was like, I'm still gonna move there anyway. And I think if you talk to some of those leaders, you know, a guy that I've met on a couple occasions called Zach Meerkrebs, um, if you talk to the like he doesn't, I'm I'm I'm sure that he doesn't begrudge what that was. Right. In fact, I'm sure he's he's very grateful for what that was and what he saw God do there. Right. Right. And so I'm just saying, like the in the ebbs and flows, you know, however it is, like, yes, there is opportunity for fear, and yes, there is uh a sense of and and other things, right? Again, yeah, we operate out of fear or
Awakening Library And Shared Learning
love, right? As a quick commercial for awakeninglibrary.com, yeah, to just speak to those guys, Zach and the other leaders at Asbury, yeah, very wisely said, Let's grab what we have learned and create some content to talk about. Yeah, hey, if you're after revival, if you're after awakening, here's what we learned. And so they created awakeninglibrary.com. All the resources are free. Videos, beautiful articles. Dave Thomas, yeah. Dave Thomas, yeah. Uh Seedbed, I think, was another group that was part of that. Yeah. But but they took that and they said, hey, we are going to grab what we learned here and make it accessible to anybody who wants to find out what was happening. And I'm really grateful for that because it really does feed this thing of where's God going with all this? Yes. And you had mentioned this. I don't know how we're, yeah, I think we're doing okay. We're getting good. To just say you you were mentioning to us to me just before we we jumped in here where is this all going? And I I think part of the few decades of experiencing revival moments and spaces, of being able to say, God, is there an objective here where you're going that we need to keep our eyes on? Yes. But first, before we go there, I just want I think it's worth highlighting the journey that we've been on over the last 10 to 4 10 to 14 years. Yeah.
A Decade Of Rising Tide At King’s
Because I think we have, you know, uh, before we get to the the big, big picture, which at least let's spend five minutes talking about um where we feel like we are in this. Because I think really, I think with full integrity, we have felt like we've been in this room where the tide has been rising for like over a decade. Right. Yes. Right. And again, as God has moved, like we've seen, like, think about when I think about backing up 15 years ago and even coming, just coming to church, being and being involved. I was involved here, and again, you know, we've been here for decades. Yeah, right. You know, but uh what we've seen God do in terms of just salvations, baptisms, uh, healings, reconciliations, uh, deliverance, uh, freedom, uh, you know, just the activity like inviting in other leaders in the body of Christmas. The gifts of the spirit has been, you know, in my, in my, you know, it hasn't been a, you know, again, I don't know what you want to call it, but it felt has felt like um sort of this decade and almost a half of a gradual rising of the tide, like the water level has been rising over these last, it hasn't been necessarily a wave, right? Necessarily, right? But yeah, just it's been this slow increase, a slow and steady increase of what God's doing and sort of this awakening. And as, you know, we've been sort of um tasked with, you know, on the leadership end of trying to discern and pray and encourage and rally people, speak into leadership, speaking what we believe is happening. This is what we believe is happening, and as we've sort of, you know, and and there's been you and me, and you know, uh, especially Pastor Brent uh and some other leaders that have been sort of around and speaking into this, like we've as we've pressed in, you know, through all the ups and downs of that, right? There has been this consistent sense that, oh, hey, you know, last year the water was up to my knees, and now it's like up to like, yeah, you know, at least a little bit, a little bit above my knees, right? Like it was so, but it hasn't been, you know, but there is a clear sense that we are in an environment where there is this, we've experienced increase, yeah, and we are experiencing increase. And at least there is some sense of like as we continue to trust God, lean out, stretch out in faith, that we will continue to experience increase. Right. I don't know, like just throw in your I think a principle that that I think I've picked up along the way is I did start out, you know, 14, 15 years ago with all of us together, really stuck on the waves paradigm. Yeah, there's gonna be waves and waves and waves and waves. And it slowly I began to realize there's something else going on here besides the waves. It is the rising tide. And that was sort of a new learning curve for me. Right. Um, and so what I just wanted to say in there is I feel like I thought the actual like higher watermark and and the wave, the bigger the wave and the consistency of the waves, that that the waves themselves were the thing. Right. And what I didn't realize was what the waves of what God was doing here as we learned to be obedient and walk with him as a team, which was a beautiful thing. Yeah, um, it was changing us. We were maturing in ways we didn't realize. Yep. And I then from my perspective, it seemed like God was then showing Pastor Brent, especially as he traveled around and networked that what was happening here was part of something that was happening a lot of different places. And it was mature that God was showing us I've actually matured you guys to a place where you're ready to embrace my rising tide. Right. That's one small thing I've just noticed. Yeah. We thought the events and the and the the characteristic of the move of God was the thing. Right. When I when I began to realize was he was actually maturing us through. Like it was what was happening in us as a church body that we're able to now. Yeah, it is what it is. It's such a it's such a, you know, a little bit of a a little bit of a, I don't even know what the word is, not a conundrum, but maybe more like a paradox. Because I could say, like over the last, like we, you know, we were uh we just celebrated baptisms yesterday. And like the the text thread between, you know, the leadership uh and some of our location pastors was just some of the stories that were happening were like like you were just like so many wows incredibly wows and hearts and fire emojis and like just from across the region, right? There were powerful testimonies of God at work. And you know, it and it's just like again, consistently, it seems as though God is doing something unusual here. And and it's not just like it's not just um concentrated on the valley, like it's concentrated in all of our other locations at King's. So God is so you could say with full integrity, God is doing something at King's Church, at you know, in King's Church, St. Stephen, across, and you know, whatever, across across the region. And so that's just at least something worth worth noting is that we we seem to find ourselves, and maybe this is a little bit the wave, right? But we seem to find ourselves in these consistent waves, but yet there's this underlying sense that there is a rising tide, that the water is getting deeper around us, right? Because, and as you know, what you just said about the maturing process that that God has been doing in us, right? Right. And so it's just like it's the willingness to stay at the table, to be unoffended, to all these other things, right? To to give ourselves to prayer and to worship and stepping out in faith and being radically generous and faith-filled. Like we're seeing, we're seeing God do something here in that maybe the waves are gonna come, but then the the rising tide is more dependent on the containers that God is building. I wonder anyway, I'm just throwing just throwing it out there. Yeah, but I think it, I think it was, it's worth, you know, it's worth acknowledging what that God is doing something unusual. And I think when other leaders come, and this is always the this has been sort of the testimony for gosh, I don't know, at least the last decade and maybe more. I was gonna say at least at least 10 years, where leaders will come and they'll be in the room and say something special, something's happening, something's happening here. That's this isn't normal. Yeah, right. And so, like, and again, we don't take that for granted. Right, really. Like it was it's really a point of you know, we we never want a plateau, we never, but we never want to be presumptuous about what God is doing. So there's just, you know, in in the fear of the Lord, we just say, God, we're committed to your vision and your heart for the region. So come and keep doing what you're doing here and help us. Like we are your people, this is your church. This is not just King's Church, this is the King's Church. And so, hey, there you go. Nice, that's the thing rewind, yeah. 15 seconds, listen to that again. Yeah, the King's Church. This is the King's Church. And so I feel as though, you know, from my part where I'm sitting, as long as we can keep that, there is this going to be this continued, you know, again, not to be presumptuous, but I do have a measure of expectation that these this, you know, in the in the near term and also in the long term, that as the collective heart of the people and leaders and pastors, lay leaders, volunteers, right? All of those is the collective heart. There's a critical mass of people that are saying, God, we're yours. We want to go where you're leading. Yes. So come and help us follow you. You know, empower us as we follow Jesus. Yeah. And share us with your heart, your vision for the region. As we continue to do that, right, like I we I have an expectation that these things are going, like the tide is going to continue to rise. Yes. So in the midst of whatever's else is happening in the world. So, but so now I want to get to just where we think, you know, not not where we think, where the sort of where the word, where the word of God seems to point to where this is all going. Right. Right. And again, this is a word that uh maybe a just a why don't you why don't you talk? I appreciate this, and yet I feel like you were like you articulate it really well. Like it's I mean, I can take a shot at it, but yeah, I'm sure I'll have something
Ephesians 3 And The Ultimate Goal
to say. Okay, so Ephesians chapter three, yeah. Um it's this beautiful, like Paul is pouring out and articulating his heart as he prays for the church in the region of Ephesus. Can I can I maybe I'll read it? Yeah, go for it. So it just starts at verse 14 and it goes to verse 19. It says, For this reason, I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory, that he may grant you to be strengthened with the power through his spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth, the length, the height, and the depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Boom. Yeah, right. Yeah, and that's this scripture has popped up in a bunch in the last you know, few months for sure for us. And just I feel like this we're I feel like the Lord is saying, uh, here's something I need you to pay attention to. Right. Right. Cause I think this is where, you know, again, for whatever, for whatever your story, my story, King's Church's story is, the story of the church is like the church, this is the the culmination of where the church is headed. This is the ultimate move of God. Right. This is where God is that that, you know, according to the riches of God's glory, the church is going to be strengthened, right? Yeah with power through the spirit in the churches, like the individuals in the churches, in their in their inner being, right? So in their inner being, so that Christ may dwell in their hearts, every one of yours, mine, the whole church, through faith, rooted and grounded in love, right? And being given strength by the spirit to comprehend and to know, like to the you know, the the length, the height, the breadth, and the depth of the love of God to know, to experience the the to like not intellectually, but heart level, know the love of God that surpasses knowledge. Yes, and and here it is, that we may be filled, like me, you, the whole church, right, the body of Christ, the bride of Christ would be filled with all the fullness of God. Right. And like we're that's where we're going. Yes, absolutely. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And Paul would have written that, not having any idea when that would be fully accomplished. 100%. Did he imagine that the year 2026 would even be in the, you know, in the mix? Yeah. I don't, I don't imagine he imag I don't imagine Paul assumed this was gonna take a couple of millennia. Yeah. I I who knows. I don't know, but I they were they were saying in the early church, you know, Jesus is coming soon. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we're still saying that. Right. And so there's this there's this growing appreciation in our leadership amongst our church here, but I think many places around the world for let's not get so fixated on the beautiful thing God is doing right here and now, yeah, that we create a monument to it and miss what you just read. Right. That that the the full that the fullness of Christ being completely like like having it completely overtake the bride of Christ until we are an expression of the fullness of all of his glory. It's like let's realize ultimately that yeah is where God is going. Like that is the ultimate rising of the tide. Yes, it is right there. I you know, I always say, I used to always say like that, that quote, um, and you might know this because you know John 17 better than I uh better than I do. But again, in terms of like outrageous statements in the Bible, you know, I always thought that, you know, Jesus saying that they may be one, like that him asking for for the church, the body of Christ to be one as Father and Son are one, right? Is yeah outrageous. And maybe, and maybe that is, but the incomparable oneness. Like whatever, like I don't even understand. I don't even understand what that means, right? Yeah, and this is also one of those places, yes, right, where like I that like what does that mean to be filled with the fullness of God? Right. I don't even know what that means. Right. But I actually I just had this thought, I just want to throw I want to throw it out there. I find it curious that immediately before the immediately before God uh Paul says that he he the the last step is to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge. Yes, yeah, right? Amen. So yeah, the last thing he mentions, so so you could say I he draw he's drawing a connection, right? There's a progression, the strengthening that comes from the spirit, so that he would dwell in our hearts through faith, rooted and grounded in love, that you may have the strength to comprehend with all the saints the height and the breadth of the love of God, that you would know, and that gnosis is experiential, that we would we would be, we would know the love of Christ that's that surpasses knowledge. Yeah, and that's like that to me is like very connected, yeah. That is what Jesus prayed for, and that right, and it's like, and it is it is like and it is like it's like the um it's the first Corinthians 13, like these things remain, right? But the great, you know, faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love. Right, God is love, right? Right, it is there is a very like at the core of who God is, he is love. Yeah, and so here we have Paul going, that you would know the love of God that sp passes knowledge. Wow, yeah, right, and that you may that that you may, so the knowing then there's a connection with the knowing the love of God that passes knowledge, there is a connection between that and being filled with the fullness of God. Right, yeah, right. So that inseparable forever union with with Jesus. Like that, what a it's like what a beautiful, like what a beautiful aroma, like what a beautiful uh vision of that's where that's the ultimate move of God. Yeah, yeah, is the church being in inseparable forever union with Christ in God. Come on. Like that's like that's wild. No matter so, no matter what impressive wave may come and go, yeah, it's nothing compared to that. Yeah, like that's the that's where we're going. Yep, right? That's incredible. Amazing. Well, hey, yeah, it's your turn to pray for us. It's okay. Well, why don't I pray and then we can call
Prayer For Strength And Fullness
it? Yeah, just so Father, we just come before you now and just thank you. Um, just thank you for your presence here in this conversation. Thank you, Holy Spirit, or thank you, uh Father, Son, Holy Spirit for um your goodness, your kindness, your love for us, Lord, and your unrelenting uh commitment to accomplishing your word and what you have said about the earth, what you have said about the church. And so I thank you, I thank you for that, God. And so we just welcome just for for this moment, Lord, we welcome you to come and do what only you can do in and through me, Dan, and whoever's listening, Lord. And so just bless them, whoever's listening, God, with just that scripture, Lord. I just ask, God, that you would strengthen each one, Lord, with power, Lord, so that uh so that we would be uh given strength, that by your spirit we would be rooted and grounded in love, and to come to this knowledge that Paul speaks of, that is in your heart to give to your church this knowledge that this knowledge of your love that surpasses knowledge unto the fullness of being filled with the fullness of God. Yes, Lord. So I just pray right now, God, that you would just come and do what only you can do. We love you, God, and we bless your name. Amen in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Wow. Well, that's a wrap on this episode.
Closing And Share The Podcast
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