Grace Over Performance

We explore a simple framework that gets practical fast: love and truth belong together, and fear and lies feed each other. Every day we’re choosing a narrative, and that choice shapes our ability to receive joy, live with courage, and respond to God without shrinking back. We also talk about how the prophetic and hearing God work best when they flow from love, not from pressure, disappointment, or a need to prove ourselves.

Finally, we look at Jesus’ model for spiritual authority. He refuses the lone ranger route, stays in union with the Father, and points miracles and revelation back to the Kingdom of God rather than personal validation. That leads to a crucial question for anyone pursuing prophetic gifting, Christian spirituality, and discipleship: are we operating for approval, or from approval? Listen through to the prayer at the end, then share the conversation with a friend, subscribe for weekly talks, and leave a review that helps more people find the podcast.

Transcript

Welcome And Why We Gather

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast. I'm Anthony Moore, and I'm Dan Lamus. For over a decade, Anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical, and the matters of the heart.

Lavish Grace And Worthiness

SPEAKER_02 0:15

And we invite you into these weekly conversations. We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table. So pull up a chair, settle in, and let's get started. Well, here we are. Here we are, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Yes, yes, here we are.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Once again, sitting down for a conversation.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Yep. Listening to God, talking about hearing him by his grace and always by his grace, right? Like I just thank you, God, for how you made us. Yeah. We love that we can hear you, uh, but we take it by grace too. You know, we don't we aren't presumptuous about it.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

No, that's good. And I think they're, you know, just not wanting to just completely dive in. Just that that oftentimes that the free uh let me call it the extravagant generosity of Jesus is hard to wrap our minds around. Oh yes, yeah, right. It really is. At times it's hard to completely like it it confronts what is it confront? It confronts a little bit of an orphan in everybody. It confronts just in the worthiness of like all of this is for me. Like you you mean that? Yeah. And I and again, like we're you know, my I'm the bottleneck to a lot of this, right? Just the in my just in my capacity to receive, right? Like in how much I feel like is like enough. Like I will, you know, you know, just just it's the great, it's the grace of God. It's the scandal, it's a scandalous thing, right? It's the the free, outrageous, you know, extravagant, lavish grace of God in that all that he has has been made available to us through Jesus. And the the war in our mind to to really come to terms with that.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Oh, I know, I know it's quite a thing, right? Yeah, well, as as we visited different times before my sinner's prayer, after you know, 18 years of knowing the gospel in my life from birth until I was 18. Yeah, found myself in Bible college completely frustrated with myself and coming to Jesus and saying, Well, here's my sinner's prayer. Whether this makes you happy or it doesn't, you're stuck with me in Jesus' name. Amen. You know, but that the worthiness thing was has messed with me my whole life. Yeah. Of the whole, does Jesus do a thing or not because of my worth and my worthiness? Yeah. It's like, oh, he is up to something so much better than that. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

It's so true. And we get caught up in these little uh these little things, like we introduce variables into the equation, like our own performance or uh, you know, just even how we're doing that day. Like we we introduce these little variables into the equation that simply well for one, they're simply not there. And you know, uh from God's perspective, right? But when we introduce them, they simply just act as barriers, yeah. They act as as roadblocks that the Lord needs to love out of us, yeah. On the way to, you know, on the consecration and sanctification journey where like we become and the holiness journey where we become like him.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

I love that. He needs to love it. Yeah, he does need to love it. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

Well, I guess, yeah. And I think I heard I heard this uh, I don't know, this is uh probably going on a decade now, but that the Lord, and this is still true. I think this is the the best way to to hear this, is that God's intro God's intro interested in removing things that get in the way of love, right? And actually, you know, it's again, it's a fear and love war, right? Those are the diametrically opposed, you know, uh sides of this this war that's happening inside of each of each of uh us. Yeah, each person is like, will I operate out of love or will I operate out of fear? And Jesus demonstrated what it was like to operate completely out of love. Yeah, that's right, right? Yeah, and so but but you and I and everyone listening has this battle going on inside of us about uh what it is to operate, which which kingdom, which side of the battle are we partnering with? Is it fear or is it love? Right, right. So agreed. Anyway, I don't, I guess I'm you know, we have other things to talk about, but this is actually you know really good.

Why We Hide From God

SPEAKER_00 5:17

So it's so good because um I found myself uh somewhere in the middle of last week. I like I like to write my prayers. I and maybe a lot of people do, maybe other people that isn't so much their thing, but I like to to really you know craft a prayer that really gets at what I really want to say. And I was just doing that and became aware as I was praying about this very thing of God, I love your voice and I love I I was referring it kind of in a poetic way, referring to his presence as breath. It's like you know, feeling your breath and hearing your voice. I love it, God, but why do I run for hide? Why do I run to hide when I hear it? Yeah, like when I feel your presence coming, when I hear your voice, yeah, just like Adam, I want to run to hide when I hear your coming. And I just have found over the decades that God is I am slowly learning, God's so faithfully teaching that I don't have to run for hiding. And love is really I want to say like love is the thing that's helping me to, for lack of a better way to say it, hold my peace and hold my ground when I feel God drawing near and speaking to me, my first reaction isn't to hide. Yeah, gratefully so these days. Yeah, I'm even if I've had a day of some cringy moments that weren't so godly, yeah, I'm finding myself a little more courageous in love to stay put, to let Him draw near and not hide. So just as a personal testimony, I love what you're saying because you know it is a process. If somebody has been following Jesus for a month or 30 years, yeah, it's okay for you to recognize man, like I still can side with fear pretty easy. A hundred percent. And God teach me, help hold me in those moments in love where I want to hide. I don't have to.

Fear That It’s Too Good

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Yeah, I think in since we're being open and honest, like we always are, uh I think you know, if I had to sort of put my finger on, if I had to put my finger on something that I feel like is a che in this area, right? I think it's the fear of like it being too good to be true, right? A fear in or a fear like which the fear of being disappointed. So they're kind of like I sure at least in my head, they're pretty close cousins. Yeah. But the the fear that uh that that this it's just too it's just too good to be true. So I'm gonna go along on this journey, and that at some point I'm gonna be disappointed, right? I'm gonna run into something that's gonna, you know, the that's gonna just do well. Here we go. Now this is the thing. This is finally like the thing that the thing that you've been dreading. Yes, like it wasn't as good as you thought it was. Well, of course, that of course that figures, right? And so yeah, that's a part, like in some, and sometimes that actually hinders my ability to receive even like the word, the word of God, the just moments with like that come at me along the way, where someone may report something amazing, like a good testimony, or someone may be talking to me about how good, like you know, you read Ephesians, and there's some outrageous goodness in there, right? Like it, Paul talking about, and you know, we've we've heard this a few times in the last little bit about being full, filled to the fullness of like fill uh I'm gonna like the full measure of Christ, right? Being filled with the fullness of God, fill with the the fullness of God, right? And that like to me, that's like that's one of those things. So when you start talking to me about that, my my heart go my heart a little bit goes, Oh, if only that were true.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, if only right, yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:27

You know, yeah, and and again, like my heart longs for it, yes, but yet there's something in there that is like has yet to be fully convinced, right? And oftentimes what that what that does in my life is it just it removes it removes the joy of certain moments, right? Right, of being able to really receive and celebrate and you know enjoy God in the middle of and then again, like go back to you know, one of the words for this year is that God wants me to enjoy Him. So one of that, one of that, you know, a part you know, one of the ways I can do that is actually let letting the Lord convince my heart that it isn't too good to be true, right? It's he's yeah, he's actually everything that he says he is. Yeah, and so that's like I think for me, it's like I, you know, if I've had moments in recent memory of like, you know, uh going into moments or seeing something, a testimony, or you know, something good that God or a like a promise or something good about God, and that something really good about God. And I find myself going, like I just find myself in my heart going, uh like if only like you know what I'm saying? Like it's a little bit, it's a little bit of just you know, hey, we're listening we're we're processing out loud here, full disclosure, but that's okay. Yeah, but I just find I find myself a little bit, and can I but I do feel ultimately that does rob like that operating in fear robs me of the fullness of joy from those moments.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Yeah, dare I say the carefreefree wonder of how God is so much better than we can even imagine. Being carefree in that, instead of why don't I ever really get to access it the way I'd love to, and or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Yeah, because I think you know it's true. Like I can say that with full integrity, like because I know in my head and my heart that that's eternally true, right? Yet when it comes to me, that's where I start to have the problem. Yeah, yeah, I get you. Right? Like that's where I start to do that.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

And I love that thing you the I love that thing that you were uh putting to us earlier of which which side are you gonna side with the fear narrative or the love narrative over this day? That's a great question. Yeah, it's like wow, God, by the by your grace, I'm gonna choose the love narrative over this day. Yes. I I think that's that's a great, yeah, it's a great thing.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Well, it's just like again, I think we we go back to you know, uh in and you sort of build that you build that statement, at least I do in my mind, where I go, okay, fear versus love. Okay. So Jesus, so God is love, right? So it means that Jesus operates, so Father, Son, Holy Spirit, so operates fully, completely in the realm of love. Right. Right. They they don't operate in fear, they don't, they don't live in that world at all. So they're diametrically opposed to love. God is also truth, right? He in him there is no lie. Like he's he's not a man that he would lie, right? Like we know that from the scripture. So we can equate like love and truth, we can put them on the same side, 100% of the same battlefield, yeah, and fear and lies on the same side of the battlefield. So we like this again, like so, so the uh I don't know, I'm just thinking like lies and fear sort of empower each other, right? In their like we we we believe a lie that empowers fear in our life. Yeah, right. And so we start to operate, you know, that produces bad seed. We start to, we start to live in this world of fear and lies. And we can see that I can see that in people around me. And I can see that in my own life. So that because when we start to agree with the lies that we believe about ourselves, now again, we're sliding into a every other podcast that we've talked about, but we but we just but this is the this is the world that we live in, right? It's just that the fear, the lies, the lies, the love and the truth are all sort of they live in this, like fear and lies live in the same kingdom. Love and truth live in the same kingdom. And so we can we can just say that uh, but anyway, back to just back to just our our hearts. Like when my heart pulls back, it's actually believing a lie.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yes, right.

Walking As Jesus Builds Kingdom

SPEAKER_02 14:18

When my heart pulls back about not like wanting, like if only just simply the phrase, like if only that were true, if only that were fully true, then but that in there's a lie in there, yeah, because it is right fully true. Yes, and I need to be convinced of that, right? Right, and so anyway, we are we just like yeah, we really dove in, yeah. And just but but like Jesus, you know, again, like when Jesus operates fully, completely in love. And so, like, so God is love, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And and I think one of the one of the things that we were you know wanted to hit on today was just how just how Jesus operates, and we're we're talking, I guess we're talking about um like how he builds his kingdom. Right. And and this is sort of right, sort of related, but this is how you know how he builds his kingdom. It's really like the you know what it means to live and operate, you know, as a for you and me, as sons, there's sons and daughters, as ministers, as ones carrying the kingdom, on mission with Jesus. On mission with Jesus. Yeah, on mission with Jesus. Yeah, what it looks like for for that to happen. And you know, even as it, you know, as we're we it talks to you about, you know, we we talk about hearing God and a prophetic gifting, yeah. What what that means in all of our lives to operate in that prophetic gifting, what it means to carry that forward under under maybe under the banner of King Jesus. Right. Right? And so just I don't know, maybe just yeah, yeah, maybe just offer some thoughts to that.

Gifts Without Identity Traps

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Yeah, uh it's you know, the um I think about what one of the one of the beautiful uh verses of scripture uh from my early adult years, um read this scripture in in 1 John chapter 2, verse 6, where where the New International Version translation says, if anyone claims to live in him, they must walk as Jesus did. Right. And I remember that being discovering that verse of scripture was like eureka moment for me. Like, yeah, like I don't have to behave according to my Christian denomination standards, I don't have to behave according to my friends' standards. My standard is I need to live as Jesus lived, walk as Jesus walked. Right. Um, and of course, that's that became like a beacon I followed for quite a while in my life. But as I did, I realized there was more to that statement than first meet CI because not only did Jesus do specific things, but he did them in a certain way. Right. All of that to say, Jesus moved obviously in the prophetic gifting. You know, he words of knowledge, yeah, words of wisdom, prophetic words, all of it. He embodied all that and moved in it so uh fluently in the light in the mix of just everyday life. And I think it's part of what amazed people was this guy seems very ordinary. How is he moving in such authority with God? Right. And that intrigued them. He's not like any of our other teachers, he just seems to flow in this like presence of God and he's doing these wonders and signs. But Jesus never seemed to get to an unhealthy place with that where he was defending the way he did what he did. He always he always would point to his union with the Father, that he was doing this not solo, he was doing this under authority, right? And that he was representing a kingdom that was arriving, you know, and these miraculous signs that you were seeing and so on, and even pr even prophetic words given, right, um he was saying these are signs of a kingdom that's arriving amongst you, and he seemed to always hold that in such a healthy way, right? So that as people who are learning to hear God and share what they're hearing and wanting to see kingdom results as you know the fruit of doing that with people, we we just want to be intentional with Jesus. How did you stay so healthy in your attitude so that I can stay healthy amongst my friends? Yes. And there and they're just there are just times when um when I know that I've sought like I've sought my identity because for me, as we've shared different times on the podcast, for me uh dreaming, like having dreams in the night and very vivid dreams, active dreamer in my life, I feel like God often will give me messages in my dream life. And that's something that as I discovered that as an adult following Jesus, people seem to really enjoy hearing the dreams I had. They seem to really enjoy that I could help them interpret what their dreams meant. Right. And there have been times when I've when I've taken that on as wow, I really mean something to people because I know something about dreams and interpreting dreams. Right, right. And I've dreamt vividly my whole life. There have been times when I've wanted to like build an identity around that, and the Holy Spirit have has had to check me on that. Right and say, okay, that's something that's true about you, but that doesn't that that isn't that isn't the mark of who you are in me.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Right. That's not the main thing, that's not your identity.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Yeah, and I've had to sort of learn over the years how to diffuse that with people. Right, right. You know? Um, so I don't know if I'm getting around.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

But I just think I think so so in you're you're talking about uh a way that God uses you, like a familiar way that God speaks to you and may speak through you. Right. Right. So you're right, so you're you're talking about this and then and then a different way. Right. And and but also just to make to not um to not get derailed by that. And I mean what I mean by that is is to take that gifting and then and then by some like I'm not saying there's a there's malicious intent, but when we start to make it about ourselves, we sort of sort of start to appropriate that gifting uh or that means of God communicating with you. We start to appropriate it and believe wrong things about it as it relates to who we are. Right. We start to get out of alignment with his purposes on the earth, right? Right. So it's almost like again, like this is I I think this is a maybe we could call it like the the the early stages of misusing the gift of God in our life. Right, right. Yeah, it's like the gift of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in our life. We like the early stages of where we start to like make it more maybe like to say that it's more of an inward focus, or we believe something about that that it's that attaches itself to our identity in a in a just in a in a right, a not uh an um that's not part of his design. Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

So my prophetic gifting is going to Me belong to these people.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

I really, yes, I really want to belong to this church.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

It's gonna be this group of people. It's gonna be the ticket. Yes. The the key to your involvement in the greater sort of this church, this community.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Yeah. And even God vouching for my legitimacy as a child of God is that I can prophesy.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Like seeing it as uh well, whatever else is not okay about my life, yeah, I can still bring the prophetic word, and that gives me that means God's vouching for me in this community. Yeah. Well, still I can come with a powerful word.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

So then that's my and the and the weird thing is is right, like I I think that the weird thing is is oftentimes God is still at work in those places, but in the in the one who is delivering that, like, and again, I think you you play that out, you know, that play that that uh I don't know, whatever I'm looking at, like the that's that road that diverges from the plumb line of who God is, right? Right, you play that out long enough, it ends in abuse, it ends in in deep dysfunction, uh messes get made, and you know, you know what I'm saying? Like it actually goes off the rails pretty hard. And again, we've seen a lot of those cases, but so but it can begin, you know, in the early stages of that when we start to believe the wrong things about what this gift means, right? What does it mean about me? What does it say about me? Does it speak to my identity, right? Like, am I operating from this place of giftedness or am I operating ultimately from love? Right. So yeah, and again, some that can get a little cloudy in spots, but just to say, you know, just to say, like it can go way off the rails, but at the beginning, it may not seem so it can seem pretty interesting. It can seem pretty interesting. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Yeah, yeah, that that's right. I I um you know, it's always always kind of intriguing to me in scripture when um peop people, often other religious people or leaders, would jump to conclusions about Jesus' motivations when he would heal someone, or when he would uh you know uh perform a sign or wonder. They would jump to conclusions as to what his motivations were. Right. Like you're trying to put yourself forward as something greater than the rest of us, and and they would question the motives of his heart, yeah, and he would be very clear to say, listen, if this is happening amongst you, that means the kingdom of God has come.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

And if you don't believe me, what I'm saying, at least believe the evidence of the miracles themselves. Right. He wasn't saying, You don't believe who I am, at least believe, at least trust the miracles I'm doing. Right. He actually pointed to the kingdom and was saying, Hey, the kingdom is amongst you. Yeah, what these things I'm doing are just signs that I know it's real, right? And it's true.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Right. And I think I think one of the one of the observations, he wasn't actually doing it by himself. Yeah, right, exactly. Right. And again, like this is a we're we're hitting Trinitarian stuff right here, but like he wasn't actually doing it by himself. And Jesus himself talked about that. Like he wasn't actually like the Son of Man can do nothing on his own, but you know, John 5.19.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Incredible statement. Right, again, yes, totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

You know, when you think about who who he's who he is, yeah, and what he said about himself, but he's just saying he doesn't do he did he wasn't off lone rangering the whole thing. That's right. In what he modeled for it, it was it was like he was on mission and being sent by the father, yes, right. So everything that he did was under the banner of being sent by the father, absolutely, and so that governed, you know, again, and and he also said, like, me and the father are one. Like you read, uh, you know, John 14 talks about like you know, him trying to explain that to the disciples, and but just really about um that that Jesus did operate, he didn't operate in a lone ranger, you know, guns ablazing, you know, whatever. The way that you know, uh now he did perform like so many miracles that John says that it couldn't be recorded, and right, you know, it was a bit of it's a bit of a wild statement. This is only just a small collection of what he so, but I'm just saying is that it was it was maybe move it out of like what Jesus did specifically into how yeah he did it. Right, into how he did it. He was operating as he was doing his miracles, he was doing it in submission to a greater authority. Oh man, right? I love that.

Abiding And The How Of Ministry

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah, so just I love well, I love it. So here's thank you for bringing that up because there's a pretty amazing end for bringing up John 14 and 15, you know, those that those discourses, you know, what they call what they call it, the uh the upper room discourse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, those chapters in there. Pretty amazing connection when when Jesus said, you know, the in John 5, the the son can do nothing on his own. He only does what he sees the father doing, say what he sees hears the father saying. Um and then Jesus teaches in John 15, you can do nothing on your own. It's only as you abide in me and my word abides in you. Well, what's intriguing to me about that is we could look like we're doing a lot, but if we're acting independently from God, even if what we're doing looks good, right? It's a different thing that's going on there. Right. It's a lot of nothing in a sense. I guess if I could be crass about it, like you could be very busy doing a lot of nothing. Well, what's intriguing to me is Jesus was giving them a teaching that he had modeled for them. Yes. You guys have heard me say all these months and a few years here. I'm not operating independently. I'm doing like I can do nothing on my own, guys.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

I'm doing this in communion with my father. Yes. We're one. Then he teaches them, hey, guess what? This is the way you guys are gonna carry this forward. Neither can you. Yeah, you're not gonna, you're not gonna just rehearse how to do this and then just go do whatever you want with this. Yes, you are going to do it abiding in me. That's a that's a pretty powerful connection there. That Jesus himself was saying, I am not just off doing what I want to do. I'm in union with the Father, the Spirit.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Yeah, it's almost it's almost like you could say, I'm just thinking out loud here, it's almost like you could say, how you do this is more important than what you do.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Yeah. I yes, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Yeah. So how you operate, yeah, like the spirit in which you operate, yeah, is almost as almost like almost more important than what you do. Right. Because again, like I think it's maybe that's not quite the way to say that, but maybe it says how you how you do something is actually the first place that you begin, right? Like it it has to come before the what. Yeah. Right. Wow. How you're doing that, like the spirit in which you're operating, yeah. The parameters that you've surrendered to. Like we've surrendered ourselves under the rule and reign of Jesus. Right. We've like there's some there's some written stuff to that. I mean, sorry, there's some real-time stuff to that, right? But it's really fleshed out in you know in the New Testament. It's in the Word of God, right? Right. So how that you know, we like, but it's it it informs, it should inform what, like, not the other way around. Yeah. Right. And I feel like we get that, we get that like really, really mixed up sometimes. So it's like, yeah, so it's almost like maybe, maybe I'll say, maybe I'll just pull back a little bit from that in saying the how and what are probably equally as important, but if we get the what out of order with the how, yeah, then that's when it starts to get out of whack.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

I agree. Um, so you know, God takes these, his love takes these incredible calculated risks. Yeah. Working with people who have free will, we can we can choose to get get the assignment right and then go about it in a way that's quite fleshly and maybe even a little bit deceived and really make a mess of things. Or we can learn and we can remain submissive and really stay surrendered and see an amazing fruitful result. Right. This risk that God takes by partnering with us on earth, we love it. But just to zoom in and say, okay, so is it possible that I could hear God? Yeah, and then run off presumptuously and do something with what I've heard.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Without pay without doing without keeping surrendered to him.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Absolutely. Right. Absolutely, yeah. And that and that's where that starts. Like, and again, like we'd say that absolutely that's true. And again, I think in the in the grand scheme of what it's like to be a kid in the kingdom growing and hearing the voice of God, these things sort of are bound to happen. Yeah. Right. Yeah. They're they're just they may just be part of like we don't want them to happen. It's like like a kid learning to walk never wants to fall down, right? Like, yeah, so but like, and again, there's massive, like, there's massive grace for that. Okay. It just means that you know, they there may be uh this this is this is part of the the petfalls of learning and growing. And this is again, but also like it's still it's still something that we have to grow out of.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Yes, yeah. So yeah, so to call back to this thing that that we say once in a while, you know, always practicing, never pretending. Totally. So in my practicing of hearing God and then sharing that, yeah, like sharing what I'm hearing, we're not we're not necessarily expecting perfection out of ourselves. Yeah, we're saying there's room to learn. Yeah. And and always practicing, don't hesitate to share the thing that God is you're hearing, yeah, but understanding you're a learner. Yeah. And if I if I recognize, you know, an attitude or uh something, something in the flow of what I've done with a word of God that I've word from God that I've heard, there's space for me to be humble about that.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

And say, you know, like that thing I shared with you the other day, I really think I was hearing from God accurately, but coming away from that, uh, there was something weird going on in me. And so if that hit the mark, that's great. But if it if it put more pressure on you than unness than necessary, yeah, I want to take some ownership for that. I don't think my heart was right in my in the way I shared that with you, kind of thing. Or somebody says, I love what you're saying, but your whole attitude seems weird to me, man. That's that like, okay, I can receive that, be like, well, you may be right, and I want to be humble about that.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Yeah. Well, and I would say, like, could I say that the the level of the level of effectiveness, you know, the effectiveness of the gifting, the level of the effectiveness of maybe a prophetic moment, is it's it's it's directly correlated to alignment, right? It's it's directly rec like correlated to the how that we do this, like is in our level of obedience, right? And I think, you know, even um I think there's even more grace for the clunkiness of the, you know, uh, a fumbly stump, like we've talked about this before, like a fumbly, stumbly word given in obedience, in a, in a, in the just a step of faith. So you muster up some courage in a fumbly way. You deliver that word in the right spirit. Yeah. God can take that and use that's right immensely. Right. Right. Because we've like, again, operating in the right spirit means we're operating in faith. Operating in the right spirit means it's courageous at times, where we actually in the moment are saying no to fear, right? That might be a big, you know, giant, you know, yeah, standing right close to us, yelling at us, right? So, but operating in the right spirit is it doesn't mean everything necessarily goes smoothly or we feel right necessarily at peace, right? But operating in the right spirit means, you know, at least in you know, in my mind, it's like God told me to do this, regardless of how I feel, right? Even if it's fearful, I'm still going to deliver that and I'm gonna do my best. Right. Right. Like so, so so it's like operating in the right spirit and the how that we do this isn't necessarily, you know, eloquence. It isn't necessarily feeling all that feeling all that great. Although I love that when that when you feel, you know, sort of you're in a moment and God is there and everything is like it feels like all the dials are in the right place or all the all the needles are in the right place, but that's not necessarily the way that it will come out, right? Or that will may not always happen. Anyway, that's where I'm where I'm like we can't just guarantee that's gonna happen, at least along the way, right? Maybe we become more comfortable with a get uh you know a given situation. Yeah, but I'm just saying is that the how, like being in the right spirit means that we may have to make choices in the moment to reject, right, like things that are not of God, yeah, right. Like fear, yeah, right, like intimidate something trying to intimidate me. Yeah, right.

Staying Surrendered In Community

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Yeah, well, I would so I would just say over our friendship and working together, and then you know, a prophetic community growing here at our church, yeah. Um much of the for for me, much of the foundation of that is continuing to like urge each other on in the process.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

And you know, you might you and I are in a ministry moment together, and you might bring something that you feel like very strongly, this is the way this needs to happen. And then there's me involved and maybe another person, and the three of us sharing it, we start kind of pushing back on the way you want to do it.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Well, I think it might go better if we do this, and then you needing to realize, okay, sure. You know, right? Like, like and being open to having it adjusted, or and I've been in that place where my ideas have been adjusted, and I was so sure five minutes ago I knew exactly how it needed to come. And and my realizing in that moment, like, wow, like God wants to do something here that is what I was hearing from him, but it's gonna get colored by these other people. Right. And my heart needs to just roll with that because it's important to this. And then the actual ministry moment that happens is a combination of what all three of us thought. Right. And we've watched that unfold enough times, I think, to really respect it. And and just really want to encourage anybody listening. This is never gonna be a lone ranger thing.

Already Approved So Bear Fruit

SPEAKER_02 38:02

No, and yeah, right. And I just I just think that you like welcome to living under authority, yes, right? Like this is a where you live, welcome to the reality of not getting, you know, getting your way, right? Yes, or the way that you think something should roll. Right, right. Like welcoming to to to living and bumping into other people in the body of Christ, yes, right, you get uh you get refined, you know, you stick in a long enough, you just get refined in that, in that, yeah, right. So you're gonna have to manage your how you feel about certain things, right? Like, and again, like you have to and surrender ultimately is part of that, right? And again, like stepping out of and steering away from, like a fence will try to creep in, right? Uh, you know, other things that we'll try to try to keep in that will actually legitimately derail what God has for a moment or a season or a direction, right? And I think you and I have both have both experienced this, is that, you know, and we've talked about this before, is that that if we will stay, you know, in the game, right? If we will just like, okay, so that didn't happen exactly the way that you wanted it to, but it happened in a way, right? And there's not much you could do about those things, right? In the course of the conversation, the dynamics, the surrender, the the deferring to one another in love. Yeah, right. Like there's in the course of that, something happened. And yet I think you and I can both both test to that by this. I know I I can for sure for my own part, uh, would be that God has a way of accomplishing those things in that place. Yes, right. God has a way of accomplishing those things. If I will choose to stay at the table and not let offense or whatever creep in, if I just and in the context of the body of the body of Christ, in that little that little chunk of the body of Christ, God has a way of of of moving in and through those situations. Yes. And then the thing that gets that was on my heart, or at least the the the seed of that, right? It may not be whatever I sort of like added on to that in my the creativity of my mind, but the seed of that and the heart of maybe what I wanted gets accomplished. Yes, that's right. Right. Yeah. So he does the thing that he's placed on your heart to for him to do. Right. Right. He does those things if we stay in this place, right? Right. Of like surrender and humility and not getting offended, right? And just managing all like take guarding our heart and all of that. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

So I think what what seems to be kind of you know boiling to the surface for me here is instead of looking to be validated by my gifting, yeah, what I'm actually doing is God use me to validate the presence of your kingdom and your way of doing things. Yeah. It's like um yes, the movie like miraculous things happening, healings happening, um, things, you know, somebody coming with uh instructive word for me in the middle of a trouble that I'm having, and their word is totally from God and actually makes us solve something for me, and I'm able to see a beautiful, beautiful result from it. Yeah, but the the the instead of looking at that and saying, Wow, I knew I was important, right, actually saying, Oh, I knew God's kingdom is really here. And to go back to what you're saying earlier, and it really is that good. Right. And I'm not looking to have my identity be valid validated by that. What I'm looking for is the king, you know, right, the kingdom on earth as it is in heaven is really happening. Yeah, and I'm as Jesus did, these things are pointing to the fact that God's plan is unfolding and the kingdom's in the midst of you, and we're all getting pulled into that reality. It's it just kind of loosens my grip on saying my way along here is to come with a prophetic gift.

Prayer And Share With Others

SPEAKER_02 42:49

Exactly. And I think I think you know, there's a seed of another conversation here. My mind, my brain is really turning here, but it like, you know, and we and we've said this before, right? So it's like, you know, you are you you're already validated. Absolutely. Right. You're already approved. Yes. Right. And so because your heart is not, or you, or my heart is not convinced of that, we will do things for approval when the proof is already realizing. And we right, right. And so when the approval's already given, but by doing it for approval, we're we're derailing the thing that God wants to do. And so I just to say, like, that that it was just the thing that's spinning around in my mind is like, is in that in that vein, right? So approval, like uh, like earning. Uh, we talk about um just doing things like we're we're doing things for the thing that's already been that's already been given. Yeah, right. And we can put a lot of things in that, like yes, in that equation, right? But we we do the things so that we can get a thing that's already been given to. us and that right there is like is like you know the fast track to do derailing the advancement of the kingdom which is really like the mission of God like making disciples you know advancing the kingdom of God on the earth through through us so just as I and I think that that's really good to me like that's like I mean again like we could spend some time and conversation but we I think we need to be landing the plane here but really just I wonder if it would just to you know maybe just as we land the plane here just talking about operating from that place of of appropriately seeing ourselves in this like this really is about the mission of God like the the commission that comes from Jesus the sending that he gives the the empowering of the Holy Spirit and how amazing that is right and again nothing to do with like this is about eternity here like this is nothing about circumstances is about what's happening in the unseen who we who we really are yes and again like receiving maybe it's like maybe it's like this like receiving the approval of the father yeah and and starting from that place maybe I don't know maybe that's the the the thing that maybe we can pray into as we sort of land the plane is just that so that we wouldn't be like again this is not an uncommon thing like I'm sure you and I have both done this like we're working for approval that's already been given yeah and so and so like for each one of us to to just to receive the approval of God receive the identity of God receive all that he says about us and yet let that be the motivation for what we do like let that be the how yeah for that that informs the what yeah right yeah yeah so amen I don't know is this is this to me I think it's to me this week I don't know I think I think so I think I pray I think I prayed last time okay yeah well then I'm I'm happy to I'd love to pray into that yeah yeah oh God um thank you so much for just really just really the joy and the opportunity to to to talk and think and share over these things really grateful and as Anthony was was just sharing right there yeah Lord would you just release your grace in such a powerful way over our lives over anyone listening the grace to just allow ourselves to be validated by you allow ourselves to receive um I think Jesus uh what was coming to mind was you know you didn't choose me but I chose you or let us by your grace just be open to the fact that you've chosen us and you said not only have I chosen you but I've chosen you to bear fruit fruit that will last and you've involved us in what you're doing Lord this is a miraculous thing and yet you have accomplished it.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

So to everybody who's listening over our lives God we just surrender to your grace to receive these things and that you would teach us all on the way how your kingdom really works that your how would really inform the what of what we're doing. And somebody might want to even say well that was a pretty good word but you really messed this part of it up or that we would just handle that lightly and just say yeah but but the the kingdom's moving and God's upon me and Lord keep developing us and peace keep building your church strengthen the prophetic community in your church and we pray it in Jesus' name amen amen well that's a wrap on this episode it's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest as we all learn to hear God better.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

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