The Hearing God Podcast
Anthony Moore and Dan Lamos have met for coffee every week for over a decade. You're invited to listen in on their conversation on The Hearing God Podcast. Explore the prophetic, mystical, and heart-centered aspects of a life filled with the Holy Spirit. Each episode offers insights, inspiration, and practical wisdom to deepen your spiritual journey. Tune in for authentic and encouraging conversations that will enrich and empower your walk with God.
The Hearing God Podcast
We're Meant to Be Together
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There is a difference between reading Scripture as information and experiencing Scripture as encounter. Discipline matters, even when it feels dry, but we’re hungry for the moment the Word comes alive and speaks to the heart. Along the way we identify a helpful “heart check” for believers: when we’re anxious, restless, or short with people, it may be time to ask the Holy Spirit what’s really going on beneath the surface.
Then the conversation opens up to Christian community, the body of Christ, and spiritual gifts. From 1 Corinthians 12 we explore how spiritual gifts are not personal trophies but Spirit-given grace for the common good. We contrast natural giftedness with Holy Spirit empowerment and share how God often changes lives through surprisingly simple words when we’re available to Him. If you’ve ever wondered why you feel stuck alone, why “just me and God” isn’t enough, or how God’s kingdom can break into ordinary conversations, you’ll find language and encouragement here.
Subscribe for more conversations, share this with a friend who needs a reset, and leave a review if the show helps you. What is God saying to you right now?
Welcome And Framing Questions
SPEAKER_03Welcome to the Hearing God Podcast. I'm Anthony Moore, and I'm Dan Lamus. For over a decade, Anthony and I have been diving deep into weekly conversations about the prophetic, the mystical, and the matters of the heart.
SPEAKER_01And we invite you into these weekly conversations. We hope you feel like an honored guest at our table. So pull up a chair, settle in, and let's get started.
SPEAKER_03Well, here we are. Here we are. Well, when we're recording this, it's the start of a new week.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so it's usually record on Mondays. Um yeah. So how's it going, Dan? It's going well.
Hearing God Requires A Fight
SPEAKER_03It's going well. I I was uh knowing that we were coming to uh to record uh this podcast, I was thinking about something um a friend of ours uh brings often, uh, and that is these two questions. What is God saying to you? Yeah, and what are you doing about it? Yeah. Um so how I'm doing is I'm I'm in that zone of, yeah, God help me to help me to hear what you're saying to me, yeah, help me to perceive it properly, uh, and then remind me that you're looking for you're looking for a response from me. You're looking for that to set my agenda. Yeah. And so I'm I'm kind of looking at a I'm looking at a busy week, a lot of uh, a lot of priorities, yeah, not enough time to do them all. Yeah, and kind of uh trying to reassure my soul that that I'm gonna be fine. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's just yeah, like I just I think that you know, this is the Hearing God podcast. So what funny that you would be talking about what got what is God saying and what uh what is what are you doing about it. And I just I you know it's it is worth mentioning from time to time, you know, that you know, the the notion of hearing God, you know, in it's not um it's not as I mean I think the the in principle it's simple, but I think it's worth mentioning like the that it requires uh intention, it requires um you know patience, it requires, you know, it requires you know dying to self, it requires a bunch of things. It's not like it's it's not it may be simple in principle, but it's not necessarily for the faint of heart. Like it isn't because God is looking for something from anyone who might pursue what he's saying, yes, right. I you know, I was just uh I was reminded again of like, you know, we all know uh Jeremiah 29, 11, right? You know, I don't I know the plans I have for you, right? But the I Yes, I do know it. Once you remind me of what it says, yeah. Yeah, but we know like it's it's certainly in the top tier of famous scripture scripture verses, but um, we don't uh we don't like two verses later, like Jeremiah 29, 13 says that you will find me when you seek me with all your heart. Right. So it's the it's this, it's also it's that that's why I say it's not for the faint of heart, because um we there are times when it feels like hearing God is an easy thing, right? Yeah, and then there are times when it feels hard, right?
SPEAKER_03It costs you something, it costs you something be able to get in a place where you can hear. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, when you've yeah, it requires a fight, yeah, you know, and and I would say that I would say I dare say use the word frequently requires a fight. Yeah. Where you uh have to get alone, you have to get still, you have to get quiet enough, you have to put away distractions, right? And that requires, and I know this from you know, I'm sure we all know this from personal experience, where that requires rejecting things that we like. Yeah, we do we do like scrolling on our phone, we do like, you know, numbing out to you know, YouTube reels or whatever, right? Uh YouTube shorts or Instagram reels, right? We do we do like that, and there is a certain um call it uh um fleshly thing that gets like st you know, that gets whatever. It's like this thing in us that like likes it. I don't want to think about anything else, right? Yeah, but we get numbed out and distracted, and so uh all that to say is that you know that hearing like the post putting yourself in a posture to hear God is requires at times rejecting those things, yes, right, and that I think that's what we mean by you know, it isn't that you have to like sell everything and go on a you know a pilgrimage up a mountain somewhere, but it is very intentional, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, even the thought that God has plans for us now, yes, uh that brings the necessity of well, I need to hear from him then. Yeah, um, or you could forget all about all of that and just do whatever you want. But you're aware that the deeper you go into hearing God, walking with Jesus, having walking in union with the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, yeah, the more you the deeper you go in that, the more you need to stay in touch with that. And so the question, what is God saying? Yeah, become actually equals um are you in tune with the plans he has for you? Like because if my life actually what's the word subsist? That's it, sounds like a big so-yeah, that's a big word to start your week with. There you go. But my my life subsists, is that the right word? I think so.
SPEAKER_01Something like that.
SPEAKER_03The purpose of my life by the meaning of my life exists in me knowing what God is saying, yeah, and me aligning my agenda with what he's saying. Yes, that is my life. It's not God has plans for me once this earthly life is done. It's currently God has plans for me. Yes, so I can run after my plans and expect God's gonna chase me down, which is pretty presumptuous. Yes. Don't recommend living like that. Or I can intentionally say, Yeah, whatever it takes, I'm gonna elbow past everything else and push aside things so that I'm getting in the way of hearing God. Yeah. Yeah. Because that is where I'm gonna find out what is what should my agenda be. Yes. And uh so often, I mean, like I'm as human as the next guy. Like I I get frustrated when when God's plans and intentions for me mean I can't do what I wanted to do. Right. Like that really bugs me. And I have to I have to bring that and surrender it regularly. Right.
Scripture On The Page To The Heart
SPEAKER_01You know, and I think that's again, like that's part of the daily picking up your cross. Yeah. And I and I do think, you know, there's a there's a, you know, we talk about uh one thing I just wanted to throw in here, right, is that we do, you know, there are certainly plenty of people, and I don't disagree with this sentiment, really. It's uh, you know, where you know people people say if you haven't heard, if you haven't heard God, you know, try this and they hold up a picture, you know, they hold either hold up their Bible, um, or you know what I'm saying, they hold up their Bible. And so, and and I don't, and obviously, you know, I think it's God's word. Yes, but I don't, but there's a difference, let me just say this, right? There's a difference between reading chapter and verse and having that scripture come alive to you. Yes, right, and so and and I and I and I get the part of like being in God's word. And I'm just I'm not not saying anything uh to contradict that thought. I'm saying it's like it's like lifeblood. But the the problem is is that we run into is that when we there is a um there is a there's an intellectual way that we can read the Bible, and then there's the moments when the the Bible, you know, the words, chapter, verse, thought, you know, comes off the page and impacts our heart. And I think that's what we're we're all talking about when we say we want to hear God, we want God to speak to our heart, right? But we will, you know, the discipline requires, you know, at times going through seasons or or whatever, even moments or whether it's five minutes or you know, five days, yeah, perhaps, where we're reading the Bible out of discipline, we're reading scripture out of discipline, and it may be that we're just hey, that's a you know, that's a cool thought, or whatever, that's a that's a a nice thought, or it's it's hitting us at an intellectual level. Right. But what we're all hungry for is that moment where God, and and they have both the inner the intellectual has value. Let me just also state that. But but what we're looking for is for God to speak to our heart.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01I think that's what we're I think that's at least that's from my perspective, those are the moments that are truly, you know, transformational, right? That that I'm like where it suddenly becomes I encounter God and maybe the trajectory of my life or at least the day has changed because I've had a moment with the Lord. Right. Right. And I think that's yeah, yeah. I guess I don't know.
SPEAKER_03I'm just kind of this, I mean kind of it's really it's really good. I I think the the I have all the time in the world for anyone who wants to hear God in order to embrace his agenda. Yes. Like I, you know, I think it's just so healthy for us to recognize whatever day, whatever week we're talking about, we have an agenda for the week. And the healthiest thing we can do is lay down our agenda for the sake of God's. Yeah. And yes, scripture, just reading scripture is healthy no matter what, and it shapes us in many, many ways. It's especially helpful in that that discipline, the lifestyle of laying before anything a lay down my agenda, my agenda, and I embrace God's agenda. Yeah, God, I have my plans for the day, but whatever you want for my day, you have permission to derail, interrupt whatever my schedule. Yeah, and he ought and oftentimes that that does happen. Yes. And um, so and so at the heart level where we're I okay, this seems to be a good litmus test. If I if my heart is not at rest uh and I'm troubled, I'm anxious, yeah, I'm short with people, I'm whatever, I do need to do a heart check and say, God, am I really hearing you in my heart? Could you speak to me? Yeah, speak to my heart about why this is going on. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I would say this too, right? There are moments in my life where it's like um where you are, you are like, oh, I just I gotta get to the word. I had, you know, you get or you know, get get to the place with the Lord, you get to the secret place where the word opens and your heart is in a prayerful posture. Yes. There are there are moments when like you like even just like you're you open the door, you sit down, and the word gets open to you, and you just feel at peace, right? There are times when you go to that place and it's anything but peace, right? It's the fight, the fight of it, right? And so I think I just want to give, I don't know, maybe this is encouraging to some to somebody listening, where it's like you feel discouraged if you go to that place to be with the Lord and you know you're fighting through, you know, the the busy through distractions, the busyness of the day. And I think yeah, that's the the real that's a real that's a real that's a real fight. That's a real you know experience for the believer. That's a especially when we are in this sort of you know, this here, you know, living our lives, the the world, you know, has been at war for time immemorial, right? Like, and so for the for the experience of a believer to come into these places and sort of presume or expect, you know, shouldn't I feel different? I think that's right, you know, I thank you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like something like this. This this might be the deceptive thought. If I was really a child of God, I wouldn't be feeling this way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Like, so to encourage a person that they're maybe they're entertaining that kind of thought. Wow, if I'm really a daughter or son of God in Christ Jesus, I shouldn't be feeling this frustration. We want to say back to you, no, it's probably because you care and because you are a son or daughter of God in Christ Jesus, yeah, that there's a battle going on.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03And so press in fully expecting God to meet you there. Yeah. Because you're a child.
Why We Need The Body
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. And so, and again, I I should say that you know, reading reading the Bible for just you know, for the sake of discipline is transformative in and of itself. And I think, but I just love, I guess I I'm just saying I love it. Let's anymore is a Bible guy. Yeah, yeah. Because I will vouch for that. I'm pretty sure if you rerun the conversation, yeah, you weren't hearing the opposite. No, you weren't. Um, but so the so I I think it was just like the just the love of those moments, and just saying that that like the the transformative happens, you know, really at a heart level when we b when we believe. Yes. Right. And so I think that was where I was getting to. Um but I and in let's let's I think maybe let's spend some time talking about like I think we were we were chewing over a little bit this uh this idea or this this reality of like the the body and why we would need each other. Right. Um, you know, we talk about um and we've talked a little bit about you know even First Corinthians 12, like how, you know, Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians 12 how there are certain gifts that are given to the body and how we sort of we sort of need each other as we go through life. Like we need each other, yeah. Uh we and not only do we need each other, but we need God to move, like we need God to move through our brothers and sisters to love us, to encourage us, to strengthen us, to comfort us. And that's yeah, I guess that's yeah, really kind of like in line with sort of plan A of that, you know, how God is going to reach the world through the church. But that's right, it isn't necessarily just an outward sort of like you, so now your only effect is you know the Holy Spirit, you know, the Spirit of God living inside of you to touch the world around you, and it's not just unbelievers, it's actually believers around you, right? So I guess I don't know, just the just tell me where that tell me where that takes you with as it relates to the body, yeah, like the body of Christ needing the body of Christ and ministering to the body of Christ.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Uh, you know, the God's God's intention is that we we live that we live as the temple of the Holy Spirit. You know, Paul says in the same letter that you're talking about in First Corinthians, do you not know that you are the temple of the Holy Spirit? Right. And there is a very much a dynamic to that. That's that is a truth, that individually we are dwelling places of God. So that needs to mark our life, that I I'm gonna live my life as God's dwelling place, therefore I'm going to steward my body, heart, mind in a way that God can dwell with me. That God is pleased to dwell with me. Yeah, and all that back and forth. But Paul's also very clear do you guys not realize in the plural that together you are the temple of the Holy Spirit? And that is mysterious and it's God designed. Like whether it makes sense to us or whether we would have done it that way, God has already done it that way. That He has created human beings to be connected, to be the body of Christ. That's that's a metaphor Paul goes back and forth on. The temple of the temple of the Holy Spirit as a community, and the body of Christ as a community, it's mysterious, but it's not a human idea. It's God designed us to be together the place where he dwells. So that is profound just within itself. So if that is God's plan and agenda, then we need to grow mature into doing that effectively.
Natural Ability Versus Spiritual Grace
SPEAKER_01Like so well, yeah, like I think I think I one of there's something I want to hit at a little bit. So there's go for it. So there's this um you know, this this idea of it's it's not even an idea, it's it's very much something in the scripture in the new testament, specifically, even in uh Paul alludes to it in a few places, but this uh spiritual gifts, he he talks about spiritual gifts, and you know, I am we have talk covered a little bit about it um in the past, but it's I think it's worth you know jumping into a little bit deeper today, and just talking about like the why of spiritual gifts and really helping people sort of understand and maybe drawing a line. What's the difference between giftedness? What's the difference between like you know, so you're just good at something, right? Dan, you're good at conversation, you're good at listening, right? And then there's the the supernatural part of you know, how the Holy Spirit moves through you, right? And I and I guess um, you know, the one thing is like, how do we I guess maybe this I don't necessarily have a an agenda other than as often our conversations go, we go, we think of, we pull on a thread and see where that leads us. Yeah. And um, and I think, I think what is what's that, how's that hit you? What do you think, what comes to mind when you think about the difference between, you know, just giftedness and then uh then maybe what happens in that that space where the supernatural comes into that you know, yeah, and you could disagree. I mean, again, maybe maybe we don't draw the line there, I guess, but maybe we we help people understand what the maybe what the difference is between the two.
SPEAKER_03Uh I wish I was a little more uh fluent in kind of digging into some of the you know original language that Paul wrote the these letters in and and all that. I don't I don't have that, but I remember from my own studies that that the word gifts, like spiritual gifts, actually can be translated spiritual graces, like enabling, like like uh gifts.
SPEAKER_01Right, because charismata actually has right, it it's charis. Keris is the word for grace. Okay, right, right, yeah. So it's great, it's grace.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Anthony. Yeah, so so the yeah, the it's so we're not when we're talking about gifts, we're not talking about something that's given to me for me to possess it and just go have fun with it. Like somebody would though you may have fun, though you may have fun, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like somebody gift wraps that's not the intent.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like somebody gifts wraps a book for me and gives it to me, a new new journal to write in. Well, I'm gonna use that for my purposes. That's a gift, thank you for giving that to me. Yeah, um sometimes that can confuse us when we're talking about spiritual gifts, that it's actually enabling by the Holy Spirit the the grace to do things, right? So um if I've been graced to uh to actually for the for God to use my my uh conversation, my be good in that conversation, good listener, yeah, uh sensitive to people, those are characteristics of me. But what what it does for me is it that that the grace that gets attached to that is the ministry that the Holy Spirit wants to do through that. Like it's uh um He knows me, He knows the way He's designed me, but I could use all that stuff for my own selfish purposes, right? But when I'm surrendered to Holy Spirit, use me that He cu He comes with His gift, with His. Deposits of grace to actually use my ability in conversation and listening. Right for like he comes and he accomplishes his purposes.
SPEAKER_01Because I think what what I want to get at too is because it's the something else is happening, right? It's the He's doing a thing wrong or something. And it's not, I mean, again, so just to you know maybe muddy this up a little bit more, because you know, someone may come and sit with you, right? And they may feel encouraged, right? They may, and that may be entirely just because Dan is a great listener. Sure. Right. Right. So then there's the part where Dan, someone comes and sits with Dan and God speaks through Dan, right? I'm talking about you in the third person. Yeah, yeah. But where God speaks through you and they're they're transformed, right? Whether you've given them like a prophetic word, you've given them a word of wisdom, you've uh you you've given them a gift, and suddenly, suddenly something is different about them. Right. Right. And I think that's where you know we I don't even know. I don't even know how I feel about this, but let's say we just cross the line between the natural and the supernatural, right? Okay, right. So so we say, you know, a person comes and and sits down and you have a conversation with them, and maybe you tell them a story, give them life experience, and they leave. Oh, that was, I like that, right? And then they're like, you know, they come and sit, and then you know, the Holy Spirit gives you a a way of like, you know, talking to them, or he gives you a specific word, gives you scripture verses, whatever. But it's that Holy Spirit empowered thing that happens through you, yeah, that actually reaches into that person, yeah, you know, past some barriers and actually changes their life. Right. You know, it could be it could be in a very um understated yet profound way. It could be fairly dramatic. Right. And so I think that's where you know, I I think that's where we talk about, and it's things like that, right? It's so it's like experiences like that where like spiritual gifts have the power to like God God moves through a person to produce something, produce some uh transaction in the in the eternal, in the invisible, right, in the life of that person. Right. Right. So that it alters them towards the purposes of God. Right. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it's so yeah, so it's like I think that's how I mean that's a decent, I think, I think that's a decent definition, if not a little muddled, yeah. Where what how I sort of like think about the difference between gifted and like like natural gifts and supernatural gifts, right? Right, because I could go like I know and I I roll my eyes a little bit about this because I it all it all comes down to nuance because I hear think, you know, people say times about how that person's gifted. And I don't disagree that those things are from the Lord. I think all gifts and abilities are from the Lord. Um, but we're just we're talking about how the word, the word of God sort of differentiates those things. Yeah. But um, but I would just say like there's there for me, a spiritual gift either has some supernatural, probably in all cases, has some supernatural element to it, where it's empowered by the Holy Spirit to accomplish something that wouldn't be possible without the Holy Spirit's help. Right, right.
Heaven And Earth Working Together
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, like the being heaven and earth people, you know, um, God's kingdom, this this dynamic of the New Testament, this, this, this kingdom word, wherever, wherever God is in charge. Yeah, like uh the God being in charge. We we know that that exists in the invisible and the visible realm, the seen and the unseen realm. God's God's plan throughout scripture is He wants that unseen and seen world to really operate together. Yes. Um, so his kingdom coming on earth as it is in heaven, we have a tendency because of a lot of different reasons. Uh we we have we have a tendency to push the unseen far away from us. Yes, like the unseen is something that exists, who knows, a thousand miles away from us. Um, and so we tend to relegate heaven there. But let's just say, let's entertain for a moment here that that the unseen and the seen very much operate in very close proximity to each other. Yeah, God's desire is for his kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven, right? But we let let's assume heaven is very close to us as far as today goes. So to me, it's like when when I hear you talking about the supernatural uh involvement with somebody's natural gifting.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03I that's what I hear. I hear, well, this person's a heaven and earth person.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03And the more we're willing to cooperate with that, yeah, the Holy Spirit is going to come and grace our natural abilities with with his with his kingdom abilities and let it be let it be experienced in the scene. Um what the way this plays off plays off with me often is in the middle of conversations, I am actually I'm actually silently asking the Holy Spirit to speak to this person that I'm with, especially if they've arranged an appointment to come and sit with me in what we call a freedom prayer session. The whole point of freedom prayer is we're inviting Jesus to actually come and meet this person where they're in pain. Okay, regardless of whether I'm a nice guy or good at conversation or good at listening, yeah, I'm not gonna be enough in that moment. Totally. I know that. Totally. Whether I recite that to them or not, I am very much aware of that. So I'm saying, God, please, you gotta come and say something to this person, or else I don't have anything to offer them. Right. Okay, so in the middle of that conversation, I might say a thing and they they stop me in my tracks. They go, wait a second, can you say that again? Yeah, and I realize I didn't say anything hugely profound, yeah, but I recognize in that moment, oh, God's beginning to speak to this person in their heart, just like I asked him to, and he's doing it through some simple thing I just said. Right. So I will repeat the simple thing I said to them, right? But my simple thing is not gonna change their world.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03What the Holy Spirit is doing as he rides in on that simple thing I said, I know personally he's doing the changing through his revelation, right? Right. Whether or not they go away memorizing what I said, totally, they're not gonna forget that moment. Totally. You know, when Dan said that thing, I can't remember what he said, but wow, something changed to me. Right. I'm not gonna take credit for that. Right.
SPEAKER_01Because I know it was the whole thing, like but I think but I think you just cross like if I would say this a little sort of in in line with the conversation, like you just crossed the line there, right? You crossed uh and yes, like by crossing the line, I mean you crossed the best line, right? You you move from you know Dan being a guy that people just like to have conversations with into this place where the Holy Spirit has moved through something that you said, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_03And I think that's yeah, I think that's they don't know it's because I hang out with the Holy Spirit in Christ that I have something valuable to bring to them. Right, absolutely. They may not know that or they might know it. Who knows? Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_01But I think that's what I think that's what locked me. I think that's that's that's that's you didn't necessarily even necessarily know that you were going to do that, right? But God did. Right. Right. And therefore, therefore, he was like, This is the moment I'm going to, you know, again, it wasn't that he was removed from the moment. But he knows he's coming to a conclusion. I'm gonna say a thing, right? And he's he's riding in on that. He's riding in on that. And I think that's the that's the thing that I I think I want to get at is that it leaps beyond, it leaps beyond like the the spiritual end of it leaps beyond the natural into something else.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I like that. And I and I and that could happen anytime people of God are in a group of two people, three, 100%, whatever, right, when they're together, yes, and they're mingling with each other, fully open to the Holy Spirit, yeah, doing what he wants to do whenever he wants to do it.
Manifestation Of The Spirit For All
SPEAKER_01Yep, that can happen anytime. Anytime, anything can happen. Because I think there's a there's a scripture verse part of that, 1 Corinthians 12. It's like verse uh verse 6, right? It's uh I think it was verse 10. Oh no, it's verse 7. It's like, and I want to I'm gonna just jump on a little detail here. So to each is given the manifestation of the spirit, not a manifestation of the spirit. Okay. So I want to pick on that one a little bit for the silo builders out there. To each is given the manifestation of the spirit for the common good, right? And so like the heart of the heart of like this is act, you know, this is you know, at least one angle on why the spiritual gifts exist, right? The the expression of the Holy Spirit in and through a person exists for the common good. Oh, I love that. Like that's so, yeah. So the Holy Spirit essentially moves in and through you and I for the benefit of the body. Yeah, right, the benefit of the church. Yeah, right. And again, it's and it's like common, it's like so that we're all so that we're all encouraged by what we see, by how we see the Holy Spirit moving through you, through me, through, you know, anybody else in our community, like, you know, some of our team, you know, all of the people we're all benefiting from because we all have this moment where can I say it like this? Like we all encounter God through individuals around us. Yeah. Right. So there's these moments where it's like, you know, the moment that you described in that session, right? So it could be in a prayer moment, it could be, hey, sitting, having a coffee, having a conversation, it could be in the midst of any type of any type of context, right? It could be um one of our worship leaders leading worship, it could be, you know, you know what I'm saying? It could be through any kind of situation, we're not locked into a situation, but it is for the common good where we're all benefiting. We're all having a moment, perhaps. Oh, wow. If we have, again, if we have ears, if we have ears to hear, we're all benefiting. Yeah, we're all experiencing like our lives are being like the we're becoming more Christ-like. Uh we're being transformed by coming into contact with uh a Holy Spirit-empowered moment that changes us.
SPEAKER_03I love it. Right? I love this because I love it. It just reminds me of the funny conversation I've had with loved ones where let's just say uh they're they're coming down with cold symptoms, right? Right. And so you're gonna take a certain medication and we have it in our mind that that medication magically knows exactly to go to my sinuses. Like, like, like we have this idea that we know, okay, it knows, or you know, or or maybe better, maybe better to say I'm gonna take a pain reliever because I have a muscle ache in my shoulder. As if if I take these chemicals, those chemicals know how, oh, okay, it's his shoulder. Yes. Let's we're gonna need to help his shoulder out.
SPEAKER_01We know where all the shoulder things are.
SPEAKER_03Really, it's dealing with the pain in my body, yeah. And my shoulder happens to be suffering. Yeah, so my shoulder's the most grateful. But it's a pain reliever for the whole body. Yeah, it's when you talk about, I know it's incredibly simplistic, but when you talk about the manifestation of the spirit, the health, maybe I'll just throw for the sake of the conversation, the health of the spirit, yeah, okay, it's gonna reach unhealthy parts of the body. Yes. It's not like um, it's not like, well, the Holy Spirit is saying, well, today thumb is sore, so we're actually gonna only think about the thumb today.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03The Holy Spirit comes as health for the whole body.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03And of course, thumb's gonna benefit from it because thumb needs some help today. That's good. So it's kind of like when you talk about the manifestation of the spirit for the common good, it's like the the function, the the the activity of the Holy Spirit is good for the whole body. Yes. Um wherever it wherever it breaks in, you know, to in partners with like the natural interactions of people in a community, wherever it breaks in, it's good for all of us. I love that idea. Like that's beautiful. It's like it's for for the common good. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah, like regardless of it doesn't it doesn't make somebody extra special because they happen to be the place where the Holy Spirit wants to break in.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Cause because I think his intent is he wants to break in anywhere and everywhere. Yes. He will look for an open, like a willing heart to move through. Right. Right. And so yeah, I I just I think that's just worth worth saying. Like he's not, yeah, he isn't he's not, you know, if it seems as though the Holy Spirit, and this is uh I think this is a true statement, like if it seems as though um the Holy Spirit may frequently move through someone better. Or sorry, uh may let me let me back that up. That's not what I was wanted to say. Like if it seems like the Holy Spirit moves through someone more frequently, okay, yeah, right. It's not that that's the there's where the better part got. Where it's not like the Holy Spirit likes that person better.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, okay, yeah.
Availability And Surrender In Community
SPEAKER_01Right? Right. It's it's that is that possibly what's happening is that that person is cultivating a lifestyle that has come into a a different kind of alignment, right? Maybe there's a different relation level of level of surrender there. Wow. Maybe there's, you know, they've called they're cultivating something in their life where where the Holy Spirit goes, you know, he will he will love He will love me as He will and does love me as much as He loves you. Yeah. But if you've cultivated a lifestyle that's that's more so that's from your from your end more surrendered to what the Holy Spirit wants, what God wants. Yes. Secret place stuff, like obedience stuff, right? That it's gonna seem to other people like God moves more frequently through you than it does me. That's so good, Anthony.
SPEAKER_03And I think it that's so good, and I think it's so healthy to recognize on certain days people around me are gonna be more available to God than I am. Oh, yes, absolutely. And I want I want to be I want to be confessional and open enough to recognize that. There's gonna be other days where I've made myself more available to God than the next guy. Absolutely. And I don't want to take pride in that, no, but I want to recognize that that is a dynamic in the in the body of Christ. And we in and it's valuable. And again, back to intention. Um I I I don't want to I don't want to be content with God just moving in my life. I want to live for the common good. Yes. I really do. Like that really is a desire of my heart. I want to be a benefit to brothers and sisters in Christ around me. Yes. Now, saying that, there are some days I'm I'm gonna I'm not gonna use the word better, but you know, I'm hearing it in my head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's there's some days, some days where I have done, I have done the deny myself, take up my cross, and follow him work to make myself available for the Holy Spirit. Yes. There's some days I do that better than other days. Like, like I like and there's there's some days where I might even go some consecutive days and I know not making myself available, and I don't realize it until I'm day five or whatever. I don't think I'm very available for the Holy Spirit like I was a week ago.
SPEAKER_00I know.
SPEAKER_03And I have to come back and say, okay, yeah, God, you love me every bit as much today as you did a week ago. Yeah. But I'm not as available to you totally as I was. And so I would like to remedy that. Yeah. And man, we we just, man, that that like it's an exciting day in the church when we can rediscover that kind of confessional community when we're like, and this would be really stuffy language to use, but if I were to say to my sister in Christ, wow, you seem to be a lot more available to the Holy Spirit than I am right now. Yeah. And and it could I just ask you to pray for me and and I bet you the Holy Spirit would actually give you a word for me. Yes. If you would pray for me. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01I'm just I've been unavailable, here I am. I think, well, I think it being being, I think I that's a that's a massive word, I think. Available, right? Available, open for the manifestation, right, for the manifestation for of the Holy Spirit to move through, like, yeah, yeah. That is the manifestation. But I think it's just that I think that to the degree that you and I are available to the Holy Spirit is you know correlated to the degree to which the Holy Spirit is able to bring the common good, yeah, to his people.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Wow. Yeah. That's wild. I know. Isn't that wild?
SPEAKER_03So what's yeah, it's like I'm imagining the angel, the Lord saying to an angel, like, could you see if Dan's available right now? And the angel comes back saying, Well, unfortunately, he's not available right now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think there's, I mean, we're complex beings, right? We are complex beings. Yeah. And, you know, admittedly, there are days, and I think, you know, I we have no interest in pretending like we're perfect here, but there are days and moments where I'm like, Lord, I don't know if I can do this. Like, I don't, I don't know if I, you know, it's is it, is it's I just don't feel like I can do this. Yes. Right. Absolutely. And, you know, and again, I'd like to say that, you know, I'd like to say that there are times and seasons where, and and invariably, I would say, over the course of my life, there are times when I press past that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01As much, or actually, probably there are times when, you know, I'm not gonna try and measure that uh because I can't remember every time, but I would say there are times when I press past that into what the Lord wants, and there are times when I don't. Yeah. Right. And and I would say that, you know, again, the common good suffers at those times when I don't press past that. Yeah. Where it's like, I just need to get out of here, or I just need to move on, or I just need to take myself out of this conversation. I just need to whatever. I because I don't feel, and again, I think the Lord has compassion. The Lord knows us better than we do. Um, and that doesn't necessarily uh well it for sure it doesn't disqualify us, but it does, but it does, it costs us a moment with the Lord, right? Where we say, we say, like, I don't feel, you know, I don't feel like, or I don't want to, or I don't like it's again, it's again, we come out of that place of surrender. We come out of that place of alignment and partnership, right? In that, in that, you know, again, like this is the we're not we're not unsaved, right? But we are, we are, do we do step out of these moments where it does cost us, yeah, I guess, a moment with the Lord, right?
SPEAKER_03And so, and the and again, this is is really good. I this is you know, I love to I love talking about this. Um I I'm just wondering, I've I'm trying to be conscious to make sure I don't take us down a whole down whole of the ra rabbit trail.
SPEAKER_01I think this could be a quick thing for me to.
SPEAKER_03Sure, let's do it. Um just for my own part, and Anthony, I think probably you'd be thinking the same way too. Um I realize now far more than I did 20 years ago, 25 years ago, that no, like me knowing who I am, I find that in the body of Christ. That that as I am available to the Holy Spirit and I'm wanting to live for the common good of the family of God. The more I do that, the more I discover who I really am. I don't discover who I am. When I go off by myself and want to live an isolated life where it's just me and God. And then once I get that figured out, I'm going to come and be part of the body. I've I've the more I give myself to finding my identity as part of the body of Christ, receiving, giving, the awkwardness of relationship, the you know, all that that takes in the name of Jesus, I've discovered who I really am. Yes. And when I start to lose track of who I am, getting back involved with people, the people of God, I rediscover, okay, that's right. That is who I am. Yeah. And I just wanted to throw that out there. If somebody's out there struggling and they're wondering, they're on this search for understanding, okay, what does it mean that I'm a child of God? Who, what's my purpose, God? I encourage you to get in with other people and do the do the Jesus walk together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You, you, it'll it'll help you embrace who God's designed to be.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And I think I think we would say this, I think, you know, where my mind goes, I would say the enemy, the enemy wants to isolate, right? The enemy, the enemy wants to make you think like you're supposed to be, or you're not good, or yeah, I can't be, I'm not good enough to be, you know, whatever. Uh I'm I'm better than whatever, whatever all of that stuff is that that that um that would would seem that the enemy wants to isolate, uh, but the spirit of God wants to bring into draw into community, you know. And so so whatever, whatever, and again, like I'm sure we've all known those spaces, right? And I and again, I'm not saying that being alone, you're not being, I guess, those times where we we get away. We're getting away for the sake of being with God. We're not being completely isolated here.
Bigger Vision Prayer And Closing
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so there is there, there is a but there is a uh yeah Oh, I was just gonna throw in there I because I what I hear you bringing to this whole conversation is that we we can't do that connected life effectively enough and until the Holy Spirit is is leading and working through it. Like we can't get there just on our own. This isn't just about us learning how to get along. It's Holy Spirit, your agenda is connection, yeah. Yeah, and so the grace, Jesus, Holy Spirit, we need your grace upon it, or we're never gonna actually live the connected life we're designed to live.
SPEAKER_01Yes, but with you, yes, we are absolutely gonna do it. Because I I wonder if I could say it like this. And I think this is like why, why things like I wonder, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go somewhere with this. Like this things like uh gossip is a sin, so destructive, like things like slander, things like uh even like um how hatred, uh, you know, it's it's these things, right? Like even uh talk, they're toxins to a collective, right? They're toxins to our own, you know, even how abuse and how we, you know, whether emotionally, physically, sexually, spiritually, whatever, those, those uh when they get out of, like when they exist, not only does the person suffers, but the common, the bot, it's it's almost as if, you know, that the Lord created his, it's almost like this was, it's it's almost as if this was his ultimate goal. Right. Like, and so, yeah, yeah, and so like the law and the the scripture, the word, the the instructions, the do's and the do-nots are all unto this end of giving us handles of how to, you know, how to um how to live and have health, you know, among other things, right? But it's like, I'm sure I'm not together, not making any. Yes, but yeah, right. It's like I'm not trying to make a whole theological statement here, but it's like these things about how to treat one another, how how to live together is because the Lord wants us to live in community. When he gives gifts, it's for the common good because he's building, yeah, he's building something here, right? From from the from the Christ crucified, from the the you know, uh the foundation of the world. It's like so he he's bit it was almost like he's building a people who are one, who are interested in, you know, the like that's what that's where I go with common good. It's almost as if there's something bigger going on here. And it's like when I say God wants it to spread. And when I say it's almost as if I'm meaning it is there is something bigger going on. So that so that every individual is valued, every individual has the chance for an opportunity for God to move in an encouraging way, in an empowering way, in a supernatural way through each other, from one and like between, you know, between this person to that person, to me, to them, to the from this person to me. You know, it's this or organic thing that God is doing. So he's building, you know, it's like it's also like I'm gonna build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. Like it's it's like the bride, it's the you know, it's John 17, it's the oneness, right? So he's this common good that we're that that we're after by the presence, even of the gifts of the spirit, the the supernatural is doing something, it's doing this work in you and me through you and me by by the the Holy Spirit, right? It is doing something in us that's that's producing, you know, the and we're moving towards the fulfillment of all right. It's present and it's eternal, right? It's present in all and we're we're right. It's a forever thing. Absolutely. That's amazing. Whoa. If you I hope you follow that because I think we're if I I hope that got I hope that got out because it would be. You know, love the Lord your God, you know, is the first, but then the love your neighbor as yourself, right? And so I I I think it's just there is a there is something coming there that we're all being it's almost like we're built being built together like living stones, right? So yeah, it's all unto so that so that it's it's and I think I would just to maybe parse it out a little bit, but so that it isn't just you know I think it's really just I I want to drive this home and I'm gonna get the point out that when you and I uh come into agreement, we come into alignment, we and we in a place of posture of surrender and partnership with the Lord, we are we are partnering with him in a way, especially in the supernatural way, right? Where we are doing work, um we are doing work that he couldn't do otherwise. Yeah, that's what I'm that's what I want to get at. We are we are partnering with a with God in a degree that he couldn't do through us if we were just had our head in a sort of naturalistic space. Yes, right? Or if we had a, you know, again, like, or or you know, I want to be by myself, kind of, kind of dead. I was gonna say independent. Independent, right? If if we're we're doing it in an independent way, amen. Or a degree, like there's a thing that he's accomplishing that he that he couldn't do otherwise unless we partnered with him. Yes, right, and so that's yep, that's what I want to. I just want to say this is a this is a wild and amazing invitation that the Lord's given us. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So amen. And we could choose not to, or we can choose to. Totally, totally, wow, totally, amen. Wow, yeah. I would appreciate it if you would pray for all of us that we would that God that we would give God our yes, yeah, and trust the grace to do exactly what you presented. Like no, we won't move independently, God. Yeah, but we will choose to accept your invitation.
SPEAKER_01And that the Lord would expand our vision of what he's trying to do on the earth. Yes. I think that's like because sometimes when we get independent, our view is gets very small. It's me focused, right? When we when we surrender and we sort of say we say yes to the Lord and no to what our desires are, then we're invited into this space where all of a sudden, how I treat you and how you treat me and how I treat my brother and my sister, and not just treat them, but how I um how but if I give myself permission to be in community and I'm open to the Lord, yeah, like it suddenly becomes a really big thing. Yeah, it suddenly becomes, oh, there are infinite possibilities here, right? So yeah, okay. So uh if you made it this far, way to go. Yeah, yeah. And uh hopefully the last like 10 minutes made some sense because I think I was just trying to process that all of that in real time. But um, I hope for the record it made sense in the room here. So maybe go back and listen to it. And yes, I may have to relisten to see if that made sense. But Lord, we just uh let's pray. Lord, we just love you, Holy Spirit. We just thank you for your presence here, just with us, Lord. Thank you that you dwell within us, Lord, and thank you for your desire. Thank you that it's your plan, Lord. Um, so I just I pray right now, Lord, for anybody listening who's just like whose whose heart is moved from our conversation, Lord. And so we just want to say, God, would you give them grace, Lord? Would you give them grace to surrender? Would you give them eyes to see what you're doing, Lord? Would you give them grace to partner with you in this great mission of the expanding of the kingdom of God, like heaven on earth, Lord, with the let let it be done, like your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven, Lord. Give them grace, Lord, to step into a greater partnership with your heart as you want to move on earth as it is in heaven, God. And so I just pray, Lord, for eyes to see, Lord, we can't do this without you. Lord, I pray for greater dependence on you, greater level of heart posture, greater level of surrender, greater, a greater, a bigger yes to you, Lord, and just a greater trust, greater faith, Lord. I pray a greater like sense of identity, of being like, ah, I'm a son, I'm a daughter of the Most High God. So I just pray great grace on whoever's listening. I pray for my own heart, Lord. And I just say, God, would you expand this? Expand my vision, Lord, in my own heart, Lord. And so help me see what you're up to, Lord. Help me see what you're doing, and help me love the ones around me so that you can do eternal, transcendent things through through all of us, God. And I pray this in Jesus' name. Amen.
SPEAKER_03Amen. Well, that's a wrap on this episode. It's been a privilege to have you as an honored guest as we all learn to hear God better.
SPEAKER_01If your time with us has been encouraging and you think this conversation will be helpful to others, we would love it if you could share this podcast with the people around you. Until next time.
